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Q&A with Jeremy Lin

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by stl1622dc, Sep 21, 2012.

  1. RV6

    RV6 Contributing Member

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    1. OK, so he went left sometimes :rolleyes:

    Point is he's doesn't like to go left because he's not good at it and it's obvious.

    2. Wade is the exception, not the norm, he's an athletic freak. Jordan was the same way. You missed my point on this comment.

    3. They didn't draft him and cut him for the same reason others did. There's too many players to evaluate and not enough time and information to properly assess every one of them in various situations. You have to narrow down your options systematically. I'm not sure why it's so hard to understand that a point guard, who is not great at anything, can't go left, and doesn't have significant physical advantages is going to be cut from their list sooner rather than later. They missed and were wrong, but that doesn't mean their reasoning was illogical or uncommon. It happens around the league sometimes.


    He dominated the league? Over 26 games? Really? I mean, really?

    Those guys, most of them anyway, dominated OVER YEARS. Even Mike James had an exceptional run. Give Lin credit for a limited run, but that's it, for now anyway. Making more of it is like implying the Rockets were up there with the 72-10 Bulls because they had a 22 game winning streak. Great and historic run, but looking at the big picture, it doesn't make them one of the better teams in the last 20 years, or even for that season.

    I recall watching games during his streak and he'd repeatedly go right. Synergy stats aren't going to measure his hesitation going left. They're not going to tell you he had an opening and waited to go right. Perhaps he was able to even out his average over time, but are you trying to say he's not bad going left?




    I agree for the most part, but there's other players in similar situations, who knew they had to improve certain things to be taken seriously at the next level.


    Again, agree for the most part....but for a pg the biggest weaknesses to have are an inability to shoot, pass, or dribble in multiple directions/situations. Since pgs aren't always used or seen as scorers, the last two carry more importance. You can't just brush that off, which it seems some people here are doing.


    Perhaps being Asian played some role with specific people who stereotyped him, but if you're a pg with his weaknesses, no exceptional size or athleticism, possibly playing down to competition, then regardless of your race, coaches aren't likely to give you a second look. I do think coaches should have seen more potential and gave him more opportunities, but Lin has to be held accountable as well. He didn't exactly help himself by not improving on those weaknesses earlier and playing his best.


    And that's enough talk for me folks, at least until he actually plays some games again. He'll need to be re-evaluated at that point, but nothing will change for now.
     
    #61 RV6, Sep 22, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
  2. raskol

    raskol Contributing Member

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    To me, the term "high bball I.Q." is not such a malleable descriptor. It's easier to see, when someone does not have a high bball IQ, e.g., taking shots too early in the shot clock without your players set, shooting unnecessary 3s seemingly at random, making the less efficient play, not boxing out when that was what was exactly needed at the time regardless of your position, not being aware of the shot clock, not looking up, not recognizing the guy who's hot at the moment or who's hotdogging it, not recognizing and exploiting the mismatches, not knowing who you are as a player: what your strengths and weaknesses are, but simplified it would be...

    A player can be said to have high bball IQ when a player consistently shows that he makes the right decision leading to the best play at any given instant, especially when things are happening real fast.

    For me, at the playground level, not boxing out, leaving your man open, fading away on a jumpshot every time, are practically sins!! I would have a hard time playing with such a player. I hate when we are getting abused on rebounds and our tallest player wants to take ill-advised 3s. Whether he makes a few or not, it most likely would not lead to a win in the long run, but some people just can't see it. I guess for some, winning is not the ultimate goal.
     
  3. raskol

    raskol Contributing Member

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    But RV, it's clear that you didn't watch many, if any, of his games. He did "go" left. He actually went left more than his right. Advanced stats show this as well. He was also quicker to his left and when the defenses led him left, he went left the majority of the time. If you choose just 3 games at random, you would see that he actually dribbles up and sets up with his left more than his right. It was just that when given the opportunity to go right, he was near DOMINANT. That's why the defenses led him left, not because his left was so especially weak.
    But that's not to say, his left is completely kosher. He turned it over with his left because his control is weaker with was left and his passing ability was more limited with his left. I was a pretty good pg in jr. high and high school in Los Angeles, had pride in myself going left, but my right hand was more dominant. Anyways
     
  4. YaoMing#1

    YaoMing#1 Member

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    What I do know in the 20 yrs of watching the NBA is that i have never seen a player that had his best yr in the league his first yr ( I kno it was his 2nd but dudes played 50 games he was a rookie last yr)

    Lin avg 16 and 6 his first yr getting minutes as a youngster not as a 5 yr vet whos been a bench guy. These numbers are very simpler or better than cp3, dwill, rose and Westbrook in there rookie seasons. While I'm not ready to say he's gonna be better than those guys i think its very safe to say we haven't seen the best of lin at all and he has a lot of growth left.

    I'm very high on Lin and watched a good amount of his games with The Knicks last season. I truely think the rockets got lucky for once and landed the superstar/face of franchise we have been looking for since Yao retired. He will prove it in his play and the other stuff as mentioned will just be a bonus. I'm expecting 20 and 9 out of him with good decision making and leadership that we have been lacking since artest that just seems to infect everyone and make them play with passion and as a unit. This team should be very exciting to watch I think us fans will really enjoy the passion these guys are going to show for our great city just like we felt back in 09 I really can't wait.

    Go texans on Sunday 33-14 htx
     
  5. dkoune

    dkoune Rookie

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    I completely agree! It seems as this years Rockets team is brewing up a special story with Lin being the unlikely hero that leads a group of talented rookies deep into the playoffs! Rockets lose to OCK in Western Finals (3-4) :grin:
     
  6. carayip

    carayip Member

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    1. Yes, he goes right 90% of time, the same way Manu Ginobilli goes left 90%. The difference is that I saw no one complaining about Manu.

    2. So Wade is an exception for having no 3 pt shot as a SG but Lin couldn't be an exception for having no left hand (in your eyes), despite evident by his 18/7 average in nba and his successful career in college, doing all these while having no left hand mind you again?

    3. You said there is "a reason" why he didn't get drafted and got cut, applying to a certain lack of skill or "elementary holes" as you mentioned. But didn't it already prove that it's a huge mistake? So how could a mistake be used as an argument? Did that even make sense? I supposed that there is also "a reason" Kwame Brown got drafted No 1 and it's not a mistake by scouts? :rolleyes:
     
  7. kuku

    kuku Contributing Member

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    Going to the left is prob more limited by his physical ability than his skills set. Remember his shooting coach said that Lin's left leg is a lot stronger than his right?

    Stronger push off = quicker first step. That's probably one of the reasons he had a chronic meniscus tear on his heavily-used left knee.
     
  8. roxxy

    roxxy Member

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    This is actually wrong from both the eye test & statistics. When using the pnr he went to his left hand a lot more than his right hand synergy numbers prove this.
     
  9. roxxy

    roxxy Member

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    Also, I think it is pointless to talk about why he didn't get drafted. That is all water on the bridge. The kid has 25 million in the bank and is the starting point guard on a good team. I am sure he is over it so why should I care. All I care is about what he does going forward & how he improves over the season. I am not sure about 20 & 9. I have him as 18 & 8. I do agree with YaoMing#1 that I am pretty sure Morey & Les think he will develop to be there franchise cornerstone at the guard spot over the next 3 years to the point that his contract proves to be a steal. I think the same for Omer as well at the center spot.
     
  10. BornTexan

    BornTexan Rookie

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    RV6 is SAS, a coward, liar and racist who obviously pushes a specific agenda.
     
  11. lightningbolt

    lightningbolt Member

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    Uh yeah, really. Over those 26 games, he played against 20 teams, and put up numbers that only 16 other players have equaled or surpassed in the past 27 years (I misspoke when I said 19 earlier). So yeah, over those 26 games, Lin dominated. No one ever said anything about him dominating over entire seasons, or over multiple years. That has yet to be seen (though I wouldn't bet against it). Which is why, using your example, it's fair to say that over 22-game winning streak, Houston dominated. It's because we're only talking about a particular span of games, and not a season or multiple seasons.

    And speaking of Mike James, I'm assuming you're talking about his 2005-06 season. Give me a date range and I can do the same analysis on James as I did on Lin.

    Actually I found the Synergy stats that I was talking about. Assessing 29 isolation drive plays, Lin drove right 72.4% of the time and was only 14% more effective going right compared to left. So you are wrong, he went left, though not as often, and not nearly as bad as you made it out to be. Furthermore, those stats were from 2/17 so there's a whole month of data missing. I would suspect that from 2/17 - 3/24 he probably went to the left more often compared to before 2/17 as teams started forcing him left more often.
     
  12. BornTexan

    BornTexan Rookie

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    RV6 shows why Lin did not get any college scholarship and was not drafted: racial profiling, stereotyping and discrimination. You can't do this, you can't do that, you need to show me again and again and again.

    And RV6 is still lying and defending why it was that. Old habits die hard.
     
  13. CXbby

    CXbby Member

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    Every right handed player in the history of the league had a weaker left hand. Every left handed player in the history of the league had a weaker right hand.

    Why is it such a big deal with Lin? Because no Asian American guard has ever dominated like he did in that span of games, therefore IT IS IMPOSSIBLE AND SOMETHING HAS TO BE WRONG WITH HIM.
     
  14. RV6

    RV6 Contributing Member

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    Perhaps he went to his left more than I realized but even in this thread you have people who defend Lin and say he went right 90% of the time.

    Bottom line is he had specific weaknesses that would cause coaches to overlook him. I'm not saying they were right in doing so, but i can see why it would happen. You've got a lot of players to evaluate in a limited amount of time. If you're picking players for a pick up game and have 50 choices, ideally you'd check all of their games out, but on the spot you're going to check off guys who are shorter, look weaker, etc. (not saying Lin was shorter or weaker, just an example). In doing that, you're going to miss out on some talent.


    And what agenda would that be? That Lin is/was an underrated player who's got the potential to be a consistently good starting pg, if he works/improves on 1 or 2 specific things?

    Weren't you the one calling out Leo Manzano in the Olympics for showing his Mexican side?

    Please stop. I'm Mexican-American and grew up playing ball. You think that's any easier than being Asian and playing ball? I know what it's like to have to prove yourself because of how you look. I had an actual teammate in high school say he couldn't believe a Mexican blocked him after I did it in practice. And no he wasn't joking, but rather disgusted.

    Before people pull out the race card, stop and see that I actually believe in Lin more than I don't. I never had a problem with his signing. I'm just not ready to believe he's going to come in ballin' because he did it over a small sample size playing with possibly the best set shooter in the league and a big like chandler. I don't care if MJ and cynthia cooper had a baby carried by Sheryl Swoopes and raised by Hakeem Olajuwon and did the same....Lin will be the first to tell you he's got to keep playing, improving, and so on.

    Teams have more tape/data on him and will improve how they defend him. Imagine where chandler parsons would be if he had not improve his shooting later in the season. Teams gave him the shot because he lacked it. He would have seen the bench more, if he didn't hit shots. Gotta keep improving to sustain your play this early in your career.
     
    #74 RV6, Sep 22, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
  15. CXbby

    CXbby Member

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    Exactly. And they checked off the guys who were too Asian. Perfectly justifiable for a few fish to slip through. Perfectly. Justifiable.
     
  16. roxxy

    roxxy Member

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    Thos people saying he went to his right 90% of the time are wrong. The pnr was his most frequently used play & at about 68%. And he went to his left more on the pnr than he did to his right. There is no perhaps about it you were wrong and so is every uninformed fan who just listens to the pundits and doesn't do there homework.
     
  17. raskol

    raskol Contributing Member

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    RV, no one said that he went left 90% of the time. The reason why you're getting flack is because you are stating things to be true when in fact you have no idea. His "hesitancy going left" that you describe- you've never seen it. He's a pg in the NBA, being weaker on one hand doesn't mean, he can't play well with his left. It usually means, someone is dominant or effective enough to require a plan to stop. Anyway, overall I see your point. I just disagree.
     
  18. Gil

    Gil Member

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    You can't criticize Lin without being called a racist these days? Wow.
     
  19. formido

    formido Member

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    Claiming Lin doesn't have a high basketball IQ isn't about the facts on the court but about signaling. Folks making this claim are trying to signal that they don't buy into hype and don't believe things just because everyone else does. Signaling is different than analyzing reality on its merits.

    Basketball IQ isn't subject to everyone's whim of a definition. Basketball IQ is making the highest percentage play more often than other players[1]. The evidence that Lin does this is beyond dispute. He attacks the rim every time he can because players that get to the rim consistently win games. He was the NUMBER ONE player in the WHOLE NBA at percentage of drives to the basket resulting in either a lay-up or three point shot attempt, the most valuable results from a drive possible. This is almost the definition of high basketball IQ.

    He is in no way a leader just by example. As you'll see this season, he's talking to his players the whole time, explaining where they need to be on the court and correcting them so they're in the right position next time. Again, definition of high basketball IQ. He wants the team to win and he knows he's not capable of outscoring the other team alone. If he teaches everyone to play better, the whole team is much more likely to win. When you watch this season, notice the very personal level on which he directs the team and remember I told you so.

    Being a so-called LOF and having spent a lot of time in the Knicks fan culture and now the Rockets, I find the Lin discounting here truly bizarre. Knickerblogger.net knew what they were losing when they lost Lin. You'all don't know what you've got.

    Lin's tested out athleticism is on par or better, depending on the attribute, as the elite PG athletes in the NBA. His basketball IQ, according to Synergy stats, is off the charts. His athleticism plus his high basketball IQ is what's going to make him a very special player. VERY special. His is a franchise player.

    And, he engages in "deliberate practice" in the off-season, which we already saw last year had a huge positive impact on his game. (In the circles I run in, "deliberate practice" is irrefutably the gold standard for rapid skill improvement, and most NBA player's deliberateness is no where near what is video documented from Lin. A couple who match up: Steve Nash and Ray Allen. You might have noticed the results.)

    Houston's team now is better than the Knicks Linsanity streak line-up. There's no reason to think Houston won't be able to beat all the bad teams in the NBA, and there are a lot of bad teams. Lin brings a concept of high percentage, attacking, winning basketball that that the whole team feeds off of.

    I'm not Asian[1] but I love Lin's story and it dovetails with my interests. When I was a teen-ager I was a white 5' 11" dude who could dunk standing still but would always have to overcome a lot of stereotyping in the black dominated courts that I frequented. It's a constant drag on your opportunity at success. Now, I'm a software developer who in his spare time is a student of cognitive biases. Lin is one of the most fascinating examples of cognitive bias in pop culture recently. If a team somehow lucked into Kyrie Irving[2] people'd be beside themselves with joy, but they get Lin, with equivalent numbers in his first season of starts, a player who outplayed Irving in their head to head, is a FAR better defender, according to Synergy, is a top 40 player both by PER and adjusted +/-, and they're all "meh".

    [1] What it DOES NOT mean, for example, is "being a pass first point guard". It's very much disputable whether pass first point guards represent the highest percentage basketball play coming out of the point guard position or is the only high percentage way to play the position.

    [2] It's true Irving is younger, but it should already be obvious from Lin's deliberate practice regime that his improvement profile is going to resemble Steve Nash's (check Nash's player card for his first 6 seasons) more than your typical player's. According to Lin's shooting coach, who tracks every shooting workout's make percentage, his worst shooting days this off-season are better than his best last off-season.
     
  20. RV6

    RV6 Contributing Member

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    Dont know what to tell you then, if you believe every single coach and scout who laid their eyes on him is a racist.
     

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