What do they use/do at the combine to measure first step? And before i get bashed again, im not implying anything about Lin's first step. I just don't remember ever reading or hearing about a first step test at the combine. I could be wrong, but i thought Lin didn't get invited to the combine, at least not to the actual testing portion of it. And just an FYI to help you out, when quoting posters, you can use the quote button (looks like a bubble with words) to wrap tags around it: without tags: "rockets basketball" with tags:
http://thebamboxscore.com/2012/03/09/the-linside-point-guard-review/ Check out the site in general for 2-3 more posts/analysis.
If Lin's perimeter shooting shows improvement to the level of being a consistent threat, so that PnR defenders are forced to go over the screen instead of under, or to switch, then he will be very difficult to guard, further opening up his penetration game, and he will have a breakout year in his numbers. I think his points per game will primarily depend on how much total offense his teammates contribute, which at this point is very unclear. If he's only putting up 16 ppg, that will mean the rest of the team is doing well, and actually winning. But some nights he will have to shoulder most of the offense. I will wager that he will have several 30+ pt games before the All-Star weekend.
Yeah, that one i've seen...I don't see actual data from a first step test though. Is his perceived first step reaction based on the other numbers? I've already said I saw Lin had speed back in training camp of 2011. He definitely has a quick first step....but i would not say with certainty his first step is better, especially with someone like rose, who wasn't measured by BAM directly. You also have to remember the higher expected picks will not always push themselves, as they have less to prove. Finally, Lin tested worse in power, which is the largest contributing factor in a first step, which may also explain why Lin is not a dunker, like rose, or even wall. So i'd say he's comparable to them, which is saying a lot, but not clearly better. And by them, i mean wall and rose, because Kyrie isn't on their level athletically.
You're right, Lin wasn't at the 2010 NBA draft combine, but he was at the 2010 Portsmouth Invitational. For participants at both events, the company BAM Testing measured the following: 3/4 court sprint to evaluate speed, vertical jump to evaluate power, and the lane agility drill test to evaluate agility. Notice in the 3/4 sprint test video, they have a sensor at about the 10m mark to measure start speed. They published a comparison of the results for Lin, Wall, Irving here.
While there certainly could be a shade of cognitive bias here, or even a hint of prejudice, by far the majority of the issues in this thread has been borne out of ignorance rather than racism. Most Rockets fans have seen only a handful of Lin games, tops. One of the most watched games last season was against Miami, so that taints their opinion of him disproportionally as well. There is a reason why there was over 10,000 signatures on a petition to keep Lin in NY, from NY fans. Meanwhile Rockets fans believe they just got an overpaid average player who can't do this and can't do that. The difference is one group of those fans actually watched Lin play last year.
If Lamb, or Martin can be a proven efficient scorer in the upcoming season, I definitely agree but if the team as a whole needs to score and the best option is Lin, I'd be fine with that. I would not limit any option from an aggressive pg and would rather let it flow wherever it may go starting from either the post position, dribble drive penetration, or from the p&r. Ive seen enough of Lin yo trudt his sbility and dedire to play the game the right way. Mchale can tweak it from there if Lin is not hitting certain options that he would like to see. Those who have seen Lin play will tell you that 10 points comes like nothing to Lin fue to his ability up draw the foul and frequent penetration.
I think formido was referring to start speed when he referred to "first step." http://thebamboxscore.com/2012/02/29/more-linsights/ 2nd chart on this page (should have linked to this article in the first place).
at 10m mark he IS faster than Usain Bolt Ok, we know that the start is not where Bolt excels, and he does obtain his advantage later in the race, but still it is a great result for Lin!
Lin usually spends the first 3Qs trying up set up his teammates. Then when his teammates are not scoring enough or they're trailing, he'll explode and score a lot of points or draw a lot of defensive fouls. I called him Mr. 4th Quarter.
Yeah, thats what i was thinking.....but I think the sensors are too far ahead to consider this a good first step assessment. Players have taken about 5 steps before reaching the sensor that measures starting speed.
That's what makes him special. He's probably on similar overall level of Lowry/Dragic right now, but his clutchness at younger age is better indication of the potential. When Lowry/Dragic were at their best, they shot well, defend well and pass well...but none of them can take over the game in 4th quarter like stars. For whatever reason, Lin did just that in his best stretch last season.
You might be right. It is lazy to conflate first step with start speed (as measured by BAM). A better measure (though indirect) might be to look at what % of times Lin is able to beat his defender off the dribble when attacking the rim (might be able to find something like that from Synergy).
Yeah, when I first saw that I was kinda skeptical, because the chart says that Bolt's average speed was faster than his top end speed. But their numbers for Bolt's start speed over 10m is legit: if you look at his 10m splits from the 2008 race in Beijing, his first 10m was run in 1.85 seconds. Subtract from that his 0.165 reaction time, and you get 1.685 seconds. 10m in 1.685 seconds is 13.3 mph, which is what their chart says. For some unknown reason, I think BAM put Bolt's his average speed over his total 100m race in the chart: 100m in 9.69 sec is 23.08 mph. Using the 10m splits, over the first 21.5m (the length of 3/4 of a basketball court), his average speed would more be like 16.9 mph (faster than Lin). His top end speed, ie, his 10m-20m split of 1.02 sec translates to 22.0 mph so that part is correct.
Teams are different. The conference is different. Teams will focus on him because the rst of the team isn't as good as in NY. Players will play harder against him because the spotlight will be on any game Lin plays in. If he manages good stats, expect a decrease in efficiency. Nothing abnormal about it, Durant shot poorly when Seattle sucked too.
The BAM scores are both useful, and also limited in what they actually show. On one level, they confirm the obvious. Wall has the highest top end speed of the bunch, and you only have to see Wall a few times run in the open court to know that he is nearly unguardable in that situation, for the simple reason that defenders cannot even run with him, much less beside him. This is the kind of obvious athleticism that even a casual observer can see. (That's also why I think he is, based on his performance last season, overrated bc it overshadows his limitations in the half-court game, including his inability to hit the mid-range jumper, which opponents just let him have and are not punished for letting him have it. If you look at his stats for shots from mid-range they are terrible. In other words, defenders can often neutralize the quickness of his first step by defending it and giving him the jumper, and going under screens set for him instead of over. Wall also looks like he doesn't know what he's doing when running the half-court offense, but that's another story.) On another level, the BAM scores dispel the idea that Lin is not athletic, especially in half-court situations. When we talk about "quick first step," that's just a conventional phrase that actually refers to someone's first few steps instead of just the first one, that's why it makes sense to use short distance speed as a metric for "first step," Lin's raw acceleration (I'll come back to the difference between raw and practical) in short distances (13.93 mph) is better than Wall's (13.25), and considerably better than Irving's (12.64). Look at Lin in ISO situations, the RESULTS of his quick first step are undeniable -- he's getting to the basket. It may not "look" fast (whatever that means -- this is a nod to cognitive bias), but the results are undeniable. It is more obvious when you keep in mind that defenders are usually defending his penetration instead of his shot. Lin's quickness surprises some people, that's why some commentars call him "deceptively quick." The BAM scores show that Lin is simply quick, period. (Let's not even compare Lin to Usain Bolt here, because among world-caliber sprinters, Bolt's starting speed out-of-the-block is actually not his strength. It's through the rest of the stretch that he actually separates himself from the pack. Lin may be faster than Bolt in his start speed, but that's the weakest part of Bolt's ability. The mechanics of this have to do with Bolt's incredibly long legs which give him a disadvantage in his out-of-the-block explosiveness; Lin, by contrast, has a very low center of gravity, which helps him in his start speed.) With that being said, start speed is just raw athleticism, which is just one component, albeit an important component, of having a quick first step. To state the obvious, bball isn't track. For one, you have to move while dribbling the ball instead of running without it, and instead of competing with an opponent who is starting off at the same time (as in track), you can delay the opponent's start time, or get him to move in the wrong direction, by using feints and misdirection. Lin is very good at this. Whereas Wall is often just at full speed, Lin effectively uses changes of direction, so that his defender is delayed in keeping up, or misdirected elsewhere. Also notice how Lin uses the PnR screen: if the screen is set for him to go in one direction, he will often go in precisely the oppsite direction, so that he is NOT using the screen PER SE but rather using the fact that his defender thinks he will. As Lin said in his Q&A, he looks at "if a defender’s feet are in an awkward position." Such awkard positioning by the defender means that when Lin uses his first step, the defender is already delayed or misdirected. Lin and Wall have comparable raw quickness in the half-court game, but it's how they use that quickness that really matters. This is the difference between raw athleticism and practical athleticism. As I mentioned earlier in relation to Usain Bolt, start speed is related to having a low center of gravity. Bolt's long strides limit his starting speed but help his top speed. Lin, proportionally speaking, does not have long legs; he has a low center of gravity that helps his first step. More importantly (and this is a difference between raw athleticism and practical athleticism), Lin is able to maintain this low center of gravity while dribbling. Iman Shumpert is known for being a skilled one-on-one defender, and this is what he says about Lin staying low to the ground: The point is that Lin has a practical athleticism that allows him to dribble while maintaining a low center of gravity, which helps him both accelerate AND make quick changes in direction. In maintaining low center of gravity while penetrating, Lin is similar to Rose. If you analyze Rose's game, his lowness to the ground is an important part of it. That's not just pure speed, but a practical athleticism that is uncommon. The BAM scores tell you about Lin's raw athleticism, but that doesn't tell the whole story. He also has skills that can effectively translate that raw speed into a very quick first step.
+1000. I love this comment. I'm absolutely sold on Lin after watching him tear up the league last season, and I admit I get bent a little too out of whack when I hear posters regurgitate those SAS talking points (85%, turnovers, can't go left?!). I guess we can't assume everyone has perfect knowledge, just wish some people would reserve judgement until they see Lin play themselves rather than parrot talking heads. Read these blog posts to see what NY thought of Lin. Knicks fans definitely knew what they were losing when Lin wasn't matched. (warning: may load a bit slowly for you due to all the comments) http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2012/7/17/3165459/beck-the-knicks-will-not-match-houstons-offer-sheet-for-jeremy-lin http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2012/7/17/3166269/its-official-jeremy-lin-is-a-rocket http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2012/7/18/3167762/jeremy-lin-speaks
The Sports Science segment on Lin said that he goes to 10 mph from a standstill in less than a second, putting him on par with John Wall. We're paying way too much attention to his athleticism, though. No one would confuse Sam Cassell for Russell Westbrook, but the man was an all-star and a three time champion. It's better to be clutch than it is to be fast. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/inarvjDJuHo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
