I'd bet that the same people who were in favor of moving Eddie Griffin for being a "bad guy" are the same ones in favor of trading for wife-beater Kidd. Steve's having a bad shooting year in a bad offensive system. But he's a consistant shooter and scorer throughout his career, and he's young. Kidd shoots bad every year, and plays in a good offensive system. He's also 30 years old, and will turn 31 this season.
Kidd is shooting .401 from the field, when teams primarily play zone against NJ to take away his penetration. NEXT Teams don't double team Cat and lately, haven't been doubling Yao because he can't take advantage of single coverage. NEXT Both are great point guards, but neither are good enough to lead a team to a title. So lets just wait for Yao to develop before we start trading our other star players for other players that aren't going to turn Yao into a dominante force. NEXT
LOL! Are you saying that if Francis was the PG for the Nets they would have made the finals twice in the last couple of years? The simple tought of it is utterly ridiculous. Francis is nowhere near Kidd as a floor general. Francis is not a great point guard. Might not even be a great player, if you ask me. Kidd would make sure Yao got the ball in the right spot every single trip down court, my friend. With Kidd and Yao on the same team, we could become a passing team as talented as the Kings. Is Francis going to make Yao a dominant force? LOL!
Of course. Kidd and Shaq or Kidd and Duncan would make a team elite. We are talking about Kidd and Yao though. Yao is not in Shaq or Duncan's league right now and thats my point. If Yao was dominant like that, then it wouldnt matter if it was Kidd or Francis at the point. Thats why i say wait and see how Yao develops before you build the team around him, because ultimately, the Rockets might decide that the team shouldnt be built around Yao period and go in a different direction.
Put Steve on the Lakers instead of Derek Fisher and they would be working on 5 straight championships too.
Ill do you one better. How would the NJ Nets fair in the West?? This season, they are 8-8 vs. the West and last season, they were 15-13. Not good enough to even make the playoffs in WC. I agree that Francis is not a great PG and agree that Kidd is. But again, neither are good enough to lead a team to a title. Our hopes rest with Yao. If Kidd is our PG, and Yao still plays timid and cant become a dominant force in the middle, then this team won't be good enough to win a title. If Yao is depending on his teamates to make him an elite player, then he is not an elite player to begin with. Yao getting just the right pass when he does have position is a small problem. Yao's defeciences, as a whole right now, have little to do with his teamates and more to do with himself as a player. Elite players make their teamates better, not the opposite.
You are so right, Codell. So many people are ready to throw away everything on the Rocket's roster because they are searching for reasons why Yao isn't dominant. And none of them want to face the fact that he just isn't a dominant player. It's easier to blame Steve and Cat and Rudy and JVG and Stern and the refs than to just see the truth. If we get rid of Steve and Yao turns out to just be above average, the Rockets will suck for years to come. I think Yao has to prove himself before we turn everything over to him. And a handful of good games over a year and a half isn't cutting it. Kidd is talented, but he's a locker room cancer. He's already contibuted to breaking up a young team in Dallas, got traded for off the court stuff AND not being able to get past the first round in Phoenix, and he currently trying to get his coach fired after yelling at him. If Kidd got here and thought Yao was a wuss, he would never throw him the ball. In fact, he'd probably lobby to trade him.
codell, You know what I'm thinking will happen? Yao will become better than Francis (over-all) within the next 3 years. When I say better, I mean in all aspects: scoring threat, defense, aggressiveness, and stats. If things keep going the way they are, Francis should improve a little bit too. But I'm not putting too much trust in that. So, if Yao improves, then the team will improve that much more. So, Kidd or Francis? It wont matter. Yao needs to be better than both. Yes, Yao needs to make Francis better. Kidd on the other hand would make the teammates better (easier shots), but Yao will STILL carry the team. Those are two different things. If Yao continues to be timid. We are doomed.
Huh... you are the one that said that we shouldn't trade our STAR players for players that won't make Yao a dominant force. If someone out there can do it, it has to be Kidd. And another: Elite players make their teammates better... so what? What's the point? You are just proving me right. Does Francis make his teammates better? Plain and simple: NO. Not as a freewheeling guard, not as a pg, no he doesn't. Does Kidd makes his teammates better? NO ONE would argue against that. By stating that the Nets are weak against the west, you are only proving my point. Kidd has taken that team to it's limits on his will alone. Surround him with a better supporting cast, like ours, and see if we don't become a contender. We have a player who is earning the max, and that by your own definition of a star (making the other players better) is certainly not being worth it. To think that the team would not improve under the one player who magically makes everyone around him better is blind homerism at it's best. And this whole if Yao becomes dominant it doesn't matter who is the pg, is ridiculous. Even with Shaq being the most dominant force in the league, he couldn't have done it without Kobe. Could he have done it with Steve? Maybe. Could he have done it with Kidd? No brainer. No point in arquing anymore. I take my leave... Peace Thanos
Once again good post. If you get Cato the exact right pass at the exact right time every time down the court, he could average 30 points a game. If it comes down to every player on the team concentrating all their efforts everytime down the court to force one player into being dominant, you don't need Yao Ming for that. It could just as easily be Cato or MoT or Boki. Look at every dominant big man in the league. The passes are hardly ever perfect. You just get him the ball and get out of the way.
Juugie, As far as Kidd being a cancer, and a locker room lawyer/wife beater and all that, thats not why this trade doesnt knock my socks off. I have no doubts that we would be a better team with Kidd as a PG instead of Francis in all honesty. But I just question how much better, giving Kidd's shooting and the need to keep zones off of Yao. Its like putting a small bandaid on a 2 inch head wound. It might help stop the bleeding, but the head wound is still there. It has to be stitched up. In this instance, Kidd is the bandaid, and Yao's road to dominance is the head wound. If Yao one day starts affecting the flow of a game like Duncan or Shaq does, then there is no doubt in my mind that we can win a title with Steve as our PG. Heck, Shaq won with Fisher, Hakeem won with Smith and Robinsin/Duncan won with Johnson. A dominant big man doesnt nead a great PG to win, only a functional one.
Actually, that was the point (in part) Codell, How would NJ fair in the west.... We know that from the playoffs
Judging by the record I posted earlier, it would seem that they would struggle to nail down the 7th or 8th seed, just like we have been. BTW, Kidd led PHoenix teams only made it out of the 1st round in one of the 5 seasons he played there.
Actually, I haven't said it, but I wouldn't trade for Kidd. He is a great point, but that isn't really an upgrade team wise for us. It's one of those maybe, maybe no thangs.... I really don't see why Ward would want to come here either. SA would look better to me as a FA that just got a 4 million dollar check. NJ and anywhere outside Tecas will cost him zillions in state tax, he will be in Texas probably - or Florida....
Just curious... but what precisely does Steve Francis do better than Jason Kidd? Run an offense? Nope (far worse). Play defense? Nope (far worse). Score? Maybe. He might have a small advantage there. But Kidd has gotten better at that over time... and Francis seems to actually have regressed. Kidd's older. That's about the only negative there is.
I would say the Kings are still under the radar a bit. It's Lakers and 'everybody else'. People want to talk about Houston because of Ming and Van Gundy, so from a media standpoint, they are under the radar. But they are a very good team. Kings-Spurs-Lakers.. those are the teams who can win it all. Maybe the Mavs, Indy, Detroit if something bizarre happens. When Webber comes back, I don't think it will be a problem. All those guys, except for Miller, have played with him. - Tom Tolbert just thought i would add this in, i guess this team is finally starting to get noticed
please dont compare the abiltity of francis compared to kidd in the scoring department!!! Francis is going threw his worst streach in his carrear and he still is averaging the same amount of points as kidd!!! Francis has the better individual talent(no question!!!)
