putting francis' critics to rest.

I think he leading them to play offs about now
strangely
this is about the most talented team he has played with

amazing how it happens
surround a player with better players
a cohesive team . . and BOOM playoffs

but let me guess . . . we going in spite of steve. . . right

Garbage arguments

Rocket River

 

can we also add that barry plays against SECOND units
and since he is not even the second options
defenses don't pay as much attention to him as steve

BTW - put Barry on our teams the last 4 years
do we win 43+ Games ?



Rocket River

 

so your answer is neither (a) nor (b), but rather it's the coaches' fault?

hmm...i think we've heard this before.


either way, you want the coach (jvg, this time) to develop a system that will get the best from a dominant post player and an undersized, turnover prone, ball dominant, poor catch & shoot, poor passing, poor fastbreak leading, good rebounding, 2 guard?

tall task you're asking for, pgab. has it ever been done successfully before?

isn't it easier to choose option (a)? doesn't it make more sense?


and, tbui, when do you plan on answering my question?

 

Seattle is 5-17 without Barry, 25-21 with him.

 

no, yao ming is leading this team right now. on the court, this team goes as yao goes. true, he needs help, but this team goes much further w/yao than we ever have or could w/steve.

 

put barry + ___________ that we acquired w/the excess money and do we win 43+ games? probably so.

 

You absolutely can't say that.

It's really very simple.

Francis' best attribute (getting to the rim) has been taken away, reducing his value FAAAAAAR below a MAXIMUM player. It was assumed that since he doesn't carry as much of a scoring load anymore, he could concentrate more on his PG duties, where he's having his worst season in terms of asst/to ratio.

Who in history averaged 43% over 4 season, then hit 39% for the first 65 games of season 5 and considered it a slump? A slump doesn't last this long.

Charvo unearthed some brilliant info when finding out that Francis takes 10% more of his shots from midrange than he did last year, but he's still makign the same percentage of midrange shots as he did last year. MEANING? Francis is the same player he was last year, but his high % shots have been taken away. MEANING? For Francis to improve, he has to become a better player from the eprimeter and midrange.

Assuming this happens (and I truly believe he can do it), it still doesn't chage the fact that he's a horrible PG, and we can't hide this with a backcourt mate who's above average in terms of PG duties.

He's not especially good at playing off the ball either.

So you're trying to change Francis into a player who gets most his points from midrange efficiently, become a better PG (somethign he hasn't done in 4 seasons), and adjust to NOT dominating the ball as much as before?

What are the chances all this will happen? We aren't Championship calibre this season, but next season we have title hopes. How many games will we drop while Francis tries to mutate into something he's not even close to at the moment?

Why not just trade him for someone better suited? Are you seriously telling me you don't think a Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Micheal Redd, or Mike Bibby wouldn't fit in to this team and Yao Ming better than Steve? Sure there's a chance they'll have trouble... but so what, Francis is having trouble ANYWAY. Do those players have a better chance at fitting in or does Francis have a betetr chance at becoming all the thigns I previously mentioned?

 

perhaps we start with some nice FORWARDS

if we upgrade positions
the forwards HAVE to come before the guards

Rocket River
JJ is fine. . but still out of position

 

Steve was on rookie scare then

*BONK* try again

Rocket River

 

ok, then why not consider

steve for barry & rashard lewis?


doesn't that accomplish both of our goals? or are you just against any trade involving steve?

 

You guys are really looking past tbui's message. All he's saying is to give this team more time, and to give Steve more time to adapt. I agree with tbui in the fact that the constant trade proposals are slightly annoying. No one accused Steve of being the brightest tool in the shed, but he's made the effort to adapt his game, and to only give him 3 quarters of a season, and then expect drastic results is unfair. Most people here are quick to jump the trigger and demand a trade.

In this case in point, what's to expect that Ray Allen and Brent Barry would be a better backcourt duo to complement Yao? Have either ever played with a talent like Yao? Sure you can assume that their games are more controlled and in turn are better suited to benefit the team, but it's just as easy to assume that Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley can adjust their games to Yao. After all, at this moment, our duo in the backcourt is playing pretty well, and we're not close to running on all cylinders - imagine giving this lineup more time.

Either way, I'm not trying to argue what backcourt is better for our team. Some may prefer RA/BB over SF/CM, and if there aren't marginal improvements over the next year, then I would agree that some changes should be made. However, as for now I'm just trying to reiterate that we should give this team more time.

 

Where did you get that?

 

RR,

so you'd be ok with it this offseason???


yes or no will do.

 

I never said he's a great PG candidate. For me, maybe putting him at 2 is better, where he can act a role somewhat like AI in Sixers, although his game will be a lot easier, with Ming drawing the major attention in defence. All I am saying is, I don't want to trade an all-star for some mediocre Eric Snow like "pure" PG. You can argue that all those who voted for SF3 were just clueless fakefans. But then again, sometimes to claim that everyone else is blind or wrong is not really braveness. On the second thought, I just realized, in any bbs, be political, sports, or lifestyle, I never saw any one convinced any one with different opinion or converted anyone. So what we are doing on cc.net, is basically just having a chat and amuse ourselves.

 

when has steve proven to be effective off the ball, ala iverson?

also, why does the fact that there would surely be another player sent with this "competent" point guard keep getting ignored???

 

Pgab,

I hear what you say about Allen's health, but don't you think other teams are worried about Francis and Menieres?


All,

For those who think you can not get better by trading away a player for one that is a better fit, but probably less of an overall player, look at Bibby for JWill.

Bibby fit the team better, and was less highly thought of than Jwill.

Worked out OK for Sac, as they are my pick to win it all this year.

Francis is an amazing athlete, and a good basketball player.

He is NOT a GREAT basketball player, he is not even adequate at decision making, at arguably the position that requires that skill set more than any other.

Francis hustles, plays hard, and cares, but he is not all that.

DD

 

Doesn't change the fact that Steve's scoring capabilities have been RIGHTFULLY taken away by Yao Ming's presence.

Also, WHY does everyone keep making it seem that anyone is proposing Steve for Barry or Snow straight up?

Other positions will be shored up. Hell, they would HAVE to be, Steve makes too much to take back just one of these players.

If we can shore up the SF spot and get a damn good PG, that's more than enough for me.

Something like Luke Ridnour, Rashard Lewis and Calvin Booth for Francis and a portion of the 6.9M exception would be superb.

Basically, we swap Steve for Lewis and Ridnour, while taking Booth off their hands for free.

 

hmm. how did i know i'd get no response from the River?

 

We still play stupid and dumb basketball more times than not. JVG succinctly articulated my opinion of our team (for the umpteenth time I HATE DUMB basketball that Francis and Mobley embody, represent). I love wins. But they can never distort my "good basketball" radar. Dumb basketball is depressing and has a way of catching to you - something unassuming and naif fans may never comprehend.