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Purpura's Errors

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by htownbball, Jul 23, 2007.

  1. Major

    Major Member

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    Well, then it wasn't that he wouldn't play here - he just chose the money. The Astros had the option to pay him if they wanted to. As far as $14MM a year being crippling - that's just silly. It's a 2 year deal. Deals are crippling because they are long-term. Compared to the deals signed by Lilly, Meche, etc, Andy's deal was perfectly reasonable and far less risky. If we were to sign a better Jennings to a 5 yr / $60MM extension as was estimated, *that* would be a crippling, dangerous deal. 2 years, $28MM is nothing of the sort.

    That's all irrelevant. If the Astros wanted to pay him market price, they could have matched it and forced him to say no. He didn't sign here because the Astros made the decision they didn't want him at market value.
     
  2. Jared Novak

    Jared Novak Contributing Member

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    Pettitte didn't want to come back, he wanted to pitch in NY, I have it under good authority that NY was on his mind around the all-star break last season.

    Drayton didn't want to pay him and was quoted in the Comical saying that they didn't offer him arbitration due to the fact that he might have accepted it and then the Astros would be stuck with him. Drayton and Tim are on record as saying that Pettitte's arm trouble had them concerned about re-signing him (guess they weren't too worried about Jennings' arm trouble).
     
  3. redgoose

    redgoose Contributing Member

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    It's one thing when a pitcher's arm is sore and he says he can stay in the game or make his next start. We're talking about a clear injury here that a team physician or doctor would be able to show. So then you clearly believe Petitte would have lied and signed his option year being unable to pitch opening him up to a public media bashing?

    Instead, who would you have preferred to sign? Not all these pitchers have had previous arm trouble, but a few are pretty old and over 40 opening them up to a higher % of arm trouble.

    Ted lilly 40 million/ 4 years
    Gil Mech 55 million/ 5 years
    Jeff Suppan 42 million/ 4 years
    Miquel Batista 25 million/ 3 years
    Adam Eaton 24.5 million/ 3 years
    Jason Marquis 21 million/ 3 years
    Orlando Hudson 12 million/ 2 years
    Barry Zito 126 million/ 7 years

    Those were our options to go after and bid against other teams. No hometown discount available with the 2007 crop.


    I would take Andy Pettite and his word over any single pitcher that signed one of those outrageous contracts in the 2007 off season.

    The real fact is Drayton demanded his payroll slashed, and using Andy's option clause as an excuse for not resigning him was Drayton's own personal escape clause to the city and the public (that built his stadium) for not looking like a cheapskate again. I'm sure he didn't want to sign Clemens again either, but he would have had to with all the pressure that would have been put on him.

    I seem to remember years ago that a new stadium would give Drayton the money he needed to put a WS winner on the field. We did come close, but now 2 of those core pitchers that got us there have a different set of pinstripes on right now, while at the same time we're missing a couple prospects that could have still been here, and all the while we could possibly be in contention if we had resigned one guy at a good bargain no other team could get. You can't deny the fact that by not resigning Petitte hasn't led to a chain of events that led us to where we are right now.
     
  4. DOMINATOR

    DOMINATOR Member

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    not signing pettitte cost drayton more money in the long run. he created more holes by trading away CF, SP, RP for a guy who will cost as much if not more money than if he signed pettitte... while creating more holes. that is of course if they resign jennings. if not then they create even more holes with little to no assets, low budget, and no one but bandaides to call up.
     
  5. Jared Novak

    Jared Novak Contributing Member

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    Then you're pretty gullable.

    Bud Selig teased Drayton about joining the $100 million dollar club and Drayton doesn't like to displease the commissioner. The same thing happened when the Astros promised Drew Stubbs more money than the slotted amount for the position he was drafted at and the commissioner made it known that he wasn't fond of that practice. The Astros then tried to lowball Stubbs and he decided to honor his commitment to UT.

    I remember it as well and Drayton let it be known that since he raised the payroll the last three years in the Dome that the extra money generated by the new stadium was already spent. You have to remember that Drayton continues to say he has lost in excess of $130 million since he has owned the Astros, which I believe is a total crock. If Drayton is such a great businessman, then why would he continue to hold on to an asset that continues to be a loss? Drayton spends just enough to keep the team in contention in the NL Central, guess we have to be content with that.
     
  6. BigM

    BigM Contributing Member

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    we'd still suck even if pettite was here or the jennings trade didn't go down. this is far far from being just his fault, but there is a monster difference between this years berkman and last years. that may be 07 problem numero uno.
     
  7. kevwun

    kevwun Member

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    Taylor Buccholz was no longer a prospect in the Astros system. He was a throw in. He's done nothing to change that opinion.
     
  8. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    so, cat (or novak, or whoever else might know): what was pettitte's reason for wanting to leave? was it astro- or yankee-related?
     
  9. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    From what I've heard, it was a desire for New York. Nothing particularly negative about here... but he loved the spotlight.
     
  10. Blake

    Blake Contributing Member

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    Here are Tim's real errors:

    Jason Lane (BACK UP AGAIN :mad:...unless we hope he gets hot and traded
    Morgan Ensberg
    Adam Everett
    No farm system

    Basically, these are "his guys" and he's going down with the ship

    Ensberg should have never been resigned, not for 4MM...or Lane

    And Chris Burke is not the answer either...but at least he can get some AB's now.
     
  11. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    The team had clear contingency plans for both Lane and Ensberg, and Lane was never a starter at any point this season. Ensberg lasted about a month, and they replaced him with guys (Lamb/Loretta) that are having quality years. Jason Lane and Morgan Ensberg are not why this team is losing games.

    As for the farm system, I know this will start another debate... but the status of the upper levels of the farm system is largely dependent on drafts 4-5 years ago. Tim wasn't the GM then.
     
  12. coogz

    coogz Member

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    Could not disagree more with this statement. The thought going into the offseason was that they could get him at a discount, somewhere along the lines of $6-8 million a year. Then came the offseason, and with it some ridiculous contracts, where players like Gil Meche were getting $11 million per for 5 years. The market went completely haywire, with the Yankees leading the charge trying to bolster their anemic rotation.

    I think Andy would have considered the Astros, but once THAT much money was thrown at him, for THAT team, it was a moot point.

    I really didn't care about his departure - until he said "It wasn't about the money". Puh-leeeze. Now I smile every time I see him get shelled...
     
  13. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    Kevin Bass said on Opening Day that Pettitte never wanted to come here in the first place. It was his wife that wanted him closer to the family. There are other sordid rumors out there as to why that was.
     
  14. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    they're not "his" guys - they're hunsicker's guys: he drafted and/or traded for them. tim merely oversaw their development.

    ensberg was arb el; in the big picture scheme of things, bringing him back for less than $5M is not an indefensible move. i wouldn't have done it, personally, but the guy was just a year removed from a 4th place finish in the MVP voting and they needed a 3b with a power stick. it was a gamble worth taking.

    the answer to what? all that's wrong with this team? you're right. but he may very well answer at least two big concerns this winter: team defense and top of the order production.

    assuming the astros stay put, his progress over the final 2.5 months of the season will be THE storyline for the rest of this year. if he can prove capable as biggio's replacement.... man, would that be huge.
     
  15. NBT

    NBT New Member

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    Pettite was and is a spoiled little cry baby. He wasn't worth the $14M that we didn't offer him.

    Baseball players aren't even in shape. Give me the NFL or the NBA any time. Baseball just makes me yawn 90% of the time.
     
  16. redgoose

    redgoose Contributing Member

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    Are you serious? Those solid NY tabloid and chat room rumors that said his wife demanded he come back here because he had been cheating on her, and if he didn't oblidge she would divorce him? :rolleyes:

    I have to to give Drayton his props! Fans that have really followed the Astros over the years here might remember when Clemens was inches to signing with us long before he retired. But he got pissed off at the Astros for leaking his possible contract info and making him look gready to the media. So he went elsewhere and Drayton didn't have to pay him. Now, we have pulled off another slick one in making Andy Petitte look bad and gready! Just like all the other starting pitchers we developed in the past and let walk or traded away right before we had to pay them market value.

    I know Jennings isn't great, but we actually do need him since pitchers aren't growing off trees. I can't wait to find out what creative ways we're already plotting to make the casual fans bash him when he leaves. I'm betting this one will be really good since it appears we won't at least trade him for something now.
     
  17. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    Lighten up Francis. I just mentioned those rumors in conjunction with what Kevin Bass himself said, which was that Pettitte never wanted to come to Houston in the first place. Forget the tabloid and chat room rumors as to why that was and listen to what Kevin Bass said. I don't think the Astros had a chance to keep him anyway.
     

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