Purpura Perplexed

When did I say they made a mistake? I said they took a chance, and they got lucky.

Yes, I did. Now, have you ever taken a good look at the progression of the typical major league hitter through a minor league system? It takes time, and usually, you'll find they take more than 3 weeks at AAA (with a few isolated exceptions). The Astros weren't making Pence "stay put" -- they moved him up to AAA.

This is hilarious. I've talked to people directly involved or to people with contacts directly involved in the situation, yet you (with no sources that I know of) are going to tell me that they're all lying... it's all a huge conspiracy... right. The Astros weren't going to offer a 2-year deal for roughly $15 million a season to a starter who posted a 4.20 ERA (for comparison, that's roughly the same as Wandy this year) in a weak National League last season, complained of elbow pain all the time, and didn't know if he even had the heart to go one more year (much less multiple). So, Pettitte used that as his excuse, knowing the Astros wouldn't match and knowing the Yankees were the only team that would... and left. There you go.

I've talked to numerous folks directly tied to these issues, and not just the ones with the Astros who might have a biased perspective. I've talked to other players and managers about these things. I research them in depth on a daily basis as part of my job. Meanwhile, you're sitting here whining about Tim Purpura being fat. I'm the one that's "pretty clueless?"

 

One bad season in a string of good ones? No--at least two. And perhaps more; the Astros are no longer "a player away". You're right--they're a bad team playing horrible baseball in last place in the worst division in the weaker league.

I don't know where I stand on rebuilding. Both sides have compelling takes; I don't have an opinion yet.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by that, but whatever the case, I'm pretty sure it's not true. I've followed this team for my entire life, and I cover them on a regular basis right now, so I'm far from someone who doesn't care about the team or doesn't understand this organization. If you're referring to the sport of baseball, I follow basketball, football -- you name it. If it involves sports, I've played it, I watch it, and I've reported on it. And if it involves a Houston organization, believe me, I've followed them for quite a while and have been through the ups and downs.

 

fair enough we will agree to disagree but please don't use the Pence should of stayed in AAA longer because they should of had him in Round Rock last summer and not in Corpus IMO

 

So is Purpura going to be fired?

Opinions?

 

Cat, as far as Pettitte goes of course they would of overpaid but IT'S A PACKAGE DEAL WITH CLEMENS. Even Lance said that on Sports 610.

 

Again, Pence was a good but not great minor league hitter. Mid to upper .800s OPS. He progressed through the system at an extremely fast rate... only one year at AA, and only three weeks at AAA. To act like he should've gone straight to AAA is irresponsible. Maybe it would've worked out knowing what we know now, but it wouldn't have been a smart baseball decision with the information they had.

Clearly, Pence shouldn't have stayed in AAA longer... he was ready. But no one can know (well, except the 610 and 790 fanboys who know everything). It varies with all prospects. All I was saying was that Purpura took a risk, and it's one that so far has worked out extremely well. Good for him.

 

And THAT makes it true, folks. That seals it, right there.

 

Now that's sound baseball management right there. A few posts back, you were talking about how this team needs to rebuild. Now, they should've signed an old starting pitcher with a 4.20 ERA (Wandy-esque), a consistently hurt elbow and someone who said they didn't know if they even had one more year left in them to a multi-year deal for $15 million a season, all for the improved chance that a 44-year-old might come out of retirement midseason and pitch for them.

And did I mention that even with the two of them and Berkman and Oswalt at the top of their games (about 1,000 times better than this season), the Astros finished 82-80 a season ago?

And, like msn said... if Lance said it on 610, it must be true.

 

dude, we are not talking about 5 year 80 million dollar deals we are talking about two contracts that span 2 years and 1 year that is all.

Look Drayton will start feeling it when thousansds of folks stop buying season tickets and the Astros fall back to third place in sports fans minds like they were before the Oilers left and when the Rockets were hot.

I don't see how folks can defend not bringing Andy back when the Astros were 0 for 41 years of post season success before he signed and his signing sparked the two best runs in club history and judging by the current leadership in place I don't see another such run coming anytime soon.

 

Andy Pettitte for two years or Woody for two years....hmm?

 

Andy. Wanted. To. Go. And if you don't believe that and you're wanting to believe Andy or his agents, then believe Andy when he said that New York was "where God wants me." You want Timmy to override God??

If the Astros made no effort to sign him, I'd agree with you. If they lowballed him, I'd agree with you.

Look, it's not like this is anything new with Andy. Remember when he came here? The same thing with New York: all of the sudden he signs here and says, "I guess they didn't want me anymore," while the Yankees were like, "what? We'd made an initial offer and were waiting to hear back?"

Those details are not going to be correct because I'm going off memory--but the point is there was similar confusion the *first* time Pettitte left a team for free agency. Hey, Andy--why not simply say, "I'm ready to pitch somewhere else."

 

Yep... something all true fans root for... the demise of the owner.

BTW... I guarantee you that the Astros will continue to draw better than they did in the Astrodome for every single year they are at Minute Maid Park.

Going to a baseball game downtown is the most consistent part of the current Houston sports culture... more than any other aspect of pro sports here... and has been so since 2000. They drew 3 million in 2000 (sold out all games down the stretch, despite the mediocre record and no-name players), drew very well for having mediocre teams in 2002 and 2003, and are doing pretty damn well this year despite not having Andy and Roger (they were well over last year's pace months before the Biggio push to 3000 got close).

And since the Texans will sell out every game regardless (and have done so since 2002), and the Rockets play at a different time of the year, I don't see how there will be some direct competition between all three teams that must result in one winner and one loser (so we can all laugh at drayton for being cheap cheap.. "ha! he's so cheap! and Tim's so fat!").

It also helps that MMP simply screams "Astros"... while the other stadiums are blah/generic structures that are built to house several other events. 50 years from now, MMP has a chance to be as "beloved" as the original Astrodome, or any other current old ballpark... while the other structures will either be long-gone, remodeled, or having the same generic feel.

 

I'm enjoying reading this.

No idea why people think Pettite would have solved this season given the stats we've seen. Or a half-season of Clemens even.. (Roger is 2-4 with a 3.88...and a K rate that has fallen.) But yeah, I have heard from enough people with sources that Pettite was never coming back.. and I thought that was the case anyway.

Pence certainly has been great. But let's not go nuts until he finishes out the season doing pretty well as pitchers see him more. I mean we saw Luke's half season go to crap this year (and hopefully he can pull out of that). Consistency is something that comes with time and experience, and calling someone up early can hurt someone's chances at it.

 

Look at the Rockies, the Jays -- two franchises which were hot HOT HOT til poor onfield results coupled with front office blundering to leave their parks emptied and not-the-place-to-be. A few weeks ago the Yankees sold out Coors with premium pricing, and the team started winning. It may be a start on the road back up. Maybe.

Drayton canNOT retain the level you describe forever withOUT keeping the team relevant. One year is a glitch, but only some unprecedented late runs with local heroes Roger and Andy have kept this from being a long-term crisis here.

IMHO these next few days along with a hot Hot Stove winter are bloody crucial for McLane's Astros. Our Astros.

 

And will continue to be more of a novelty than any of the other new stadiums (which are newer, and yet have lost their novelty faster), because of the inherent charm built into the ballpark.

Regardless, they will never sink to the mid 90's Astrodome days... where mediocre teams were drawing less than 16,000 people on weeknights.

 

I'm not saying they will draw 3 million a year with mediocre teams... I'm saying they won't sink to Astrodome-medicore-team levels.

Situations in Colorado and Toronto are entirely unique. Colorado suffered from the novelty of the ENTIRE TEAM wearing out, not the ballpark. They didn't have any history of success... thus it was easier for fans to turn on them (especially a baseball team that plays 81 games a year). If the Broncos never won another game in that city, it wouldn't stop people from going... despite the inherent power of the NFL.

Toronto suffered more from the strike than any other team... by the time they started playing again, the World Series team they had was dismantled, and the Yankees started spending more and more to become the eventual dynasty in that division (affecting EVERY team in that division... including the Orioles). Additionally, their stadium became old/outdated as its essentially a "cookie-cutter" with a retractable roof.

 

Cleveland is actually a better comparison... they sold out for nearly 3-4 straight years before the team became mediocre (but now good again).

But regardless of how bad they were, they didn't sink to the Municipal Stadium levels they were at in the late 80's, early 90's. They also happen to feature a ballpark that is the most unique of the 3 stadiums, and continue to draw well despite the competition from the Lebrons.

The only question is, which is a better sports/bandwagon town... Cleveland or Houston.

 

The problem is one of momentum. If the Toy Shop seated 16 thou as did the Summit er laptop the empty seats would have been filled with the perception of success. The Rox would not have become irrelevant (even with Yao and TMac).

To keep butts in seats a team has to retain the 'it' factor. When I lived in Cleveland nearly 20 years ago I was in awe of Browns-mania but was assured, just wait and see if the Tribe ever starts winning. When I returned just to see a game at the Jake years later I was reminded of what I had been told.

The Rockets' luster faded with the crash caused by Hakeem's mortality and Pip/Barkley. It is still not back (just ask Steve Wasserman what it was like when he took over Ch 2 as the Rox repeated).

The Orioles' owner is their biggest albatros and Drayton is not Angelos. But the Astros run the risk of being Rockied-Jayed-or worse yet Angelosed if they do not respond aggressively now (or during Hot Stove).

Jayson Stark says zero good pitchers are available. Does that mean Roy O (or Lidge) might be able to return a King's Ransom? Someone may believe Jennings just needs a new start (yeah, right) but a deal would have to beat draft choice compensation if he signed as an FA in November. I love Berkman but he is without a position, so could he bring a King's Ransom himself? I am not advocating anyone specifically but I am pushing for Drayton/Purpura to push hard to see if some team is ready to rock'n'roll (the reeling Bosox?).

Lamb and Loretta (and Palmiero?) ought to be worth something with which to build in '08 (or '09). Qualls or Wheeler ought to be marketable. Sell high if there is a chance, but just don't give talent away.