What I would like to know is why Tracy and Yao don't play the pick and roll anymore. Maybe I have just missed it the last couple of games? I remember them playing it and getting some success from it. Maybe a coaches decision?
You need to play some real basketball to know it's not as easy as it look like in that picture. There were two guys on Sura, with the mind set of cut his passing lane to Yao. If it's TMac, the defenders would more focus on his penetration or pull-up jump shot. But it's Sura, so they wouldn't worries about his shot, that made it harder for him to to pass. (He need to pass the ball over defender's head). I think it's more because of lack of passing ability than unwilling to pass. As for why Yao didn't look at Sura's way? Maybe he wouldn't expect Sura be able to pass the ball over two defenders?
Here is another video which beeter explains why I say Sura doesn't know how to pick&roll. http://s16.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2RBB99CF6RTQV0QA72RZ024MMX http://s16.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1NLTT6SUX9Z862GELD9A2IEE8T Whoever (Yao or Mutombo or Howard ) sets the pick for Sura, he will not receive anything from Sura on the next move. It doesn't matter HOW open he is, Sura just won't look at him.
That was a great example, bob718, and not the only one. Howard was wide open and expecting the open pass but Sura didn't make what seemed like a easy pass. This is what I wrote in the knick game thread: If you watch the game then you'll notice Yao didn't even look back and put his hands up. I think Sura has been great for our team, playing hurt and all that, but that shouldn't disquise the fact that he's not a pure point guard who 'thinks pass first, then shoot'.
So what if Sura’s not a pure point guard. Yao is not a “pure center” that likes to bang down low, get rebounds, and block shots. That doesn’t mean we can’t win with him. You guys have to get over these preconceived notions on how players at certain positions need to play.
Texas Stoke is correct. You guys need to understand the play before even attempt to criticize. It makes you look like an idiot. We run this play maybe the past several games, for TMac and also for Wesley to run a curl from the baseline and get a shot at the elbow extended. It is not meant for Yao to get a shot.
We also cut down on the number of screens Yao set at the top of FT circle for TMac. That is to save Yao's energy. Sometimes Howard is setting that screen and it is designed for Howard to get a shot somewhere near the FT line if both defenders go with TMac.
You guys don't understand the play. The 1st option, Howard setting the screen on the left and stepping out, while open, is almost always drawn up as a decoy. The 2nd option, Wesley, running a curl from the baseline, around a double picks on the other side is the real play. Granted, a good PG will use the 1st option if open, before he uses the 2nd option. In reality, similar plays, for many teams, will run its course and go to the 2nd option.
Are you basing what you said on one still frame or more? Yao looks open to me ... I cannot tell if he looked back at Sura or not during the sequence.
It is just the way that play is drawn up. Most of the time, the 1st pick, 1st option is a decoy because it almost never works. The defense always knows how to defend the PnR especially if it is the first option. Look for that play again in the next few games, you will see Yao never turns and looks at Sura.
I have seen this play many times in the past several games. I also recorded some games. Look for it, they will run it again.
i think it's very easy to say we could use better players at positions not manned by yao and tmac. but if you're going to suggest that someone is not right then you should be ready to say we need someone like ______. i'm not saying sura is great, but i am saying that it'll be hard to find someone better than him right now. if you can suggest someone i'd be impressed. You have to talk about Sura's contract because we probably can't afford to pay a guy much more than Sura. Especially after Yao gets the max, which he likely will. You also talk about him not being a starter in this league, but I think he's much better than most of the starting point guards on teams that have won in recent years. He's much better than Derek Fisher and all the guys that played point at Chicago. The days of having a traditional PG in the NBA have long been dead. There's not many teams that have one any more. I think Sura has done well running the team in the half court and Van Gundy doesn't have his team run an offense where the point guard is really running the offense. Look at his past quotes and even his past Knicks teams. Granted Sura is not a true PG, but not many guys are anymore. I'd rather him play 25 min. to 30 min. but I don't have a problem with him starting. I think this where we have a big disagreement. I follow the league pretty religously and there are guys that obviously would be an upgrade like Nash, Billups, Tinsley, Bibby but we have pretty much no chance at them. Then you have a lower tier of guys like Damon Jones, Rafer Alston, that are good and young but they were asking for too much money. After those guys you get a giant list of PGs that are not stars and thus have flaws in their game such as Sura. I don't see much of an upgrade if any from Sura out of these guys. Take the time to take a look at the other point guards in the league, I think it's the least you could do if you're declaring Sura not to be the guy for us. I'm looking at the other 80 point guards in the league and I don't think there's a major upgrade from Sura that's possible.
Yeah its a pretty common play. It's a play designed to free Mcgrady and Yao has a great responsibility in it if its going to work. He knows what he's doing in that situation. And Sura sells the play by looking away. Some of us need to expand our observation powers because there is so much going on away from the ball. The source of plays usually evolves away from the ball and IF you're just following the player with the ball you're missing out on a lot of good stuff. Watch the movement, the plays developing away from the ball, and all the other things that count and make a difference and you will gain a greater apperciation for the team than you do by just watching the guy who shoots the ball or than you do by just equating success and worth by reading stats.
What you guys said are fine and perfectly reasonable. But I sense a trace of uneasiness among many fans as to why there are not many plays designed to free Yao and allow him to score, given he is arguably our best shooter (% wise). No flame pls. I am just stating the fact ...
well..instead of imagining what happens...why dont yall watch it all? Sura/Yao pick n roll it is VERY obvious from watching the completion of the mentioned play that Yao isn't a part of this play as designed except to set picks to free up someone else... Not every play needs to be for Yao...if we did that...our offense would be even more predictable than it already is.
my thought s exactly... we lose a game and then it's trade time... Mcgrady, Yao, Sura for Kobe, Odom, Divac, 1st rounder... LOL
I missed this comment earlier and I have to take exception to this. The situation with Steve was different. The similar play we had with Steve and Yao was a PnR around the elbow extended on the right. 1) If Yao picks on the low side, he rolls to the top of the FT circle and Steve dribbles toward the basket around the right side. Yao got the ball back a number of times for the shot but Steve missed a lot of them as well. 2) If Yao picks on the hi side, he rolls around the right, toward the basket. Steve dribbles around the top, he sometimes stops and pops at the elbow, other times he takes it all the way to the hoop. I don't recall Yao ever got a pass out of this. I believe it was because it was harder to make a pass with the left hand. Beyond this play though, if you remember, Steve missed a whole lot other passes in many different situations. He also waved off post man with good position all the times, whether it was Yao or Taylor. A PG don't do that in favor of starting a new play from 30 ft out. There were so many other things, you can not compare Steve with any of our recent players.
