brown eyes, being a female, having black/white skin are things a person is born with, those are things nobody else decided for them. being gay is a choice.
Doesn't providing civil union for gay couples just mean better taxes and visitation rights at hospitals like in ICU services where only immediate family can come in? I'm sure there's more to it then that, but its hospital visitation that would tear me apart if I couldn't see my potential wife while she was sick.
No the point is the segment that changed. They showed up in much larger numbers. He is speaking of the CHANGE. ie the squeak I was speaking of.
Any successful presidential election is going be a coalition by nature so I don't think it should be surprising that there are large groups within the coalition that don't agree with the other part of the coaliton. While it may be noteworthy that one segment of Obama's coalition had a big difference with another part anymore than that there were libertarians and Christian conservatives in the coalition that won the election for GW Bush.
Personally I believe that 30 years from now all of the controversy over gay marriage will be looked at as rather silly. I think the trend is clearly going to lead to an eventual acceptance of gay marriage. Consider about 10 years ago the brouhaha over civil unions when Vermont allowed them. Now those are completely accepted and the struggle is pretty much only down to the term "marriage".
The fight against gay marriage is basically lost if you look at demographics. It's just a matter of time.
I didn't chose to be heterosexual, I was chosen to be heterosexual. Mother Nature designed humans to be reproductive, it's not even debatable.
We're designed to do a number of things and guess what, they don't always work like everybody thinks they are supposed to.
I'm only a couple pages into this thread so maybe somebody has covered this, but a bunch of bigots doesn't make opposition to gay marriage a religious issue either. I have tremendous respect for religious people although I am not one. And I will never speak against their religious freedom except when it infringes on the right to the equality and happiness of others. If you oppose gay marriage, don't marry a gay. Beyond that, opposition to gay marriage - or to any other equal rights for gays or anyone else - whether expressed by Christians, Jews, Republicans, Democrats, George Bush, John Kerry, John McCain or (my candidate in this cycle) Barack Obama is WRONG. And anybody who thinks they have the "right" to cast a vote denying equal rights to others is WRONG. The bright side is this will be over soon. And the bigots that opposed equal rights for gays and lesbians will soon enjoy the shame of the bigots that opposed biracial marriage or any other equal rights for minorities. It will happen. It's only a matter of when. Although I understand that Obama couldn't have been elected without joining in this bigotry I am disappointed in him for doing so. I hope and believe it is a temporary affliction - as I hope it is temporary for all who share it.
Except young people and white Democrats came out in large numbers due to Obama too - and they largely voted against it. Why single out one group instead of looking at the overall effect?
I hope you don't take offense, but I've always thought that those most adamant that being gay is a "choice" have issues with their sexuality. Otherwise, why care? How on earth can someone feel threatened by individuals deciding to share a life together, whatever their sexuality?
Wow. This thread just got worse and worse. I honestly think basso is by far the worst poster on this board - a true hypocrite and a truly intellectually dishonest debater. Just a zero, really. But at least he's not a homophobic bigot. SpaceGhost and Landlord Landry are. Their arguments here are truly reprehensible. This is not about honest disagreement. When they argue for equal time for their "opinions," they are arguing that bigotry should have equal time with tolerance. That is truly not okay. It is sick and wrong. And, while I will repeat that basso is a dishonest debater for damning blacks and Obama for opposing gay marriage while steadfastly supporting the party that made it a dealbreaking issue in the first place, at the very least he is right that those blacks, Latinos, whites (including Obama himself) who opposed or oppose gay marriage or any other equal rights for gays are wrong - DEAD wrong and SHAMEFULLY wrong - as history will attest. Landlord Landry and Space Ghost are among the shamefully wrong. Obama is too. Although, let's just be honest, he couldn't have been elected without sharing the soft bigotry that opposes gay marriage. Why not? Because basso's party would have defeated him if he hadn't. basso knows this as well as anyone. That doesn't make it less terrible. But I honestly believe that the difference between an Obama and a Bush is that, as weak as it might have been to do so, Obama was lying. I honestly believe that there is no way in the world that he sincerely opposes gay marriage. We're almost at the end of this issue as a society but we aren't quite there yet. And so we remain at a point, largely as a result of basso's party indulging and stoking bigotry, where no man or woman can be elected president without indulging same bigotry. But this is almost over. Landry, Space Ghost, I invite you to join us in the 21st Century. Nobody will make you marry a gay, even if you might secretly wish you could. But we will have equal rights in this country. Even when it takes too long to come true, that's what this country is about.
Batman is on one of his rants again. "If you don't agree with me, you're wrong" "If you don't vote Obama, you're racist" "If you don't support gay marriage, you're a homophobe who secretly wants to be boned" Considering California is one of the most liberal states, we can make a fair assumption that at least 50% of the population of the US does not support gay marriage. I guess its also safe to assume at least half the population lose sleep at night questioning their sexuality. IMO, I think America is growing tired of listening to every minority whines about equality while the rest of the country falls into the crapper. Put your self serving interests aside for a bit to fix this country. Once we return to the glorious Clinton years, you can resume b****ing.
I'm wondering if those Gay dolphins, penguins, chimpanzees and other animals that engage in homosexuality also chose to be gay.
SG: You could have made the exact same post in defense of the right to oppose interracial marriage. Or the right to deny blacks or women the vote. I won't fight you on this too hard because I already know the result will be good eventually. You're not wrong because you disagree with me (and I have never accused you of racism here). You are wrong because, in this case, you oppose equal rights. In this country, when you oppose equal rights, time will eventually prove you the loser. I think you are probably a patriot. I am too. The main reason I am one is that this country was founded on the premise that all men are created equal. You are on the wrong side of that here. But that's okay. Free speech allows it. And I won't take it too hard because I know that equality will win out sooner than later. I'll see you on the other side.
When everybody is not treated equally in a country that prides itself on such a premise, I believe that is one of the problems that needs to be fixed.
