no it seems you have a problem with the black people who voted for it but not anyone else. so I'll ask again, do you have a problem with black people voting. because as usual, you have ignored the facts placed before you, this time by Major. If you are going to continue to be divisive, at least address his numbers.
I don't know why anyone bothered to post that article (actually I think we do). It's not even worth spending time refuting. It's yet another lame attempt at rationalizing this train of thought. Near the end of the article he reveals his true thoughts on why he's against it, as they usually do. They just can't help themselves. I hope this guy gets his thesis rejected.
I would never think otherwise, basso, but the reason you started this thread was to have something to hit Obama supporters over the head with in the aftermath of the election. It's clear from your OP. I think it's terrible that the stupid amendment passed, but I'm not surprised that some Democrats voted against it. Unlike what some folks on your side of the aisle would like everyone to believe, Democrats are not some monolithic group, marching in lockstep. Heck, we're the complete opposite. If anything, that would better describe the current Republican Party. Democrats are always fighting amongst each other. That's why the GOP, and their self-declared "independent" supporters, stayed in power so long. The worst thing Barack Obama, and Dean (with mucho help from Bush!), did to the GOP was to unite the Democratic Party. Sorry about that!
Is it more accurate to assume that if Obama was not against gay marriage (even though he is against proposition 8) that it would have passed?
if you'll look at the various palin bashing articles and threads you'll notice that republicans are pretty good at fighting amongst themselves as well. my point in starting the thread was to note something i'd noted before the election, ie, that for all his manifest gifts as a politician, he holds some views that i find troubling, and some i find downright reprehensible. his stance on the iraq war and the surge is one, this is another. and i also pointed out before the election that it's no accident he listened so attentively to rev. wright's sermons- he believes that stuff, and so do the rest of his congregation, as do their counterparts in california. those people showed up and voted for O, and Prop. 8. so, i'd like to point out that you have traded one set of religious fundamentalists for another- and it came back to bite the gay community in the ass. this was just the first instance- there will be others in the next four years.
KIND OF LIKE YOUR SUPPORT OF BUSH BITES GAYS IN THE ARSE WHICH YOU STILL IGNORE, THAT'S OUR POINT FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE THREAD
Of course, it would have passed if McCain won California. For me, that's not the point. Maybe for Basso. For me - the point is that certain strong or even monolithic Democrat voting blocs are just as "hate-filled" or "homophobic" as the white Christians that liberals deride. The pro-8 crowd definitely dominates the GOP - i'll give you that. It's just an interesting point that there are very strong anti-gay marriage elements amongst progressives as well.
well news vans have parked outside of the mormon temple across the street amongst the protesters i sit and wait to see if anyone goes too ballistic.
Or if supporters of McCain and Bush and their party weren't so overwhelmingly anti-gay it would not have passed. What is the point? There are a number of factors that caused the stupid prop to pass. You are trying to blame only one portion of the electorate. But what it comes down to is that you are advocating is giving the Republican voters a free pass for overwhelmingly supporting the amendment, while blaming only the minorities that voted in support of it. That's why you care justly catching grief here.
well this rally has just gotten much bigger plenty of cops around, its spilled onto the streets of santa monica blvd looks like that street is now shut down, the streets around my office building are being closed. i had a cop ask me to use the restroom in our building. i see a rainbow colored american flag man this is entertaining not getting any work done today
First off Hillary Clinton wasn't on the ballot and second its likely that even if she was many of the same minorities would've still turned out to vote since the Democratic base of CA is very dependent on blacks and Latinos while the Repub base is whites in the Central Valley, San Diego, LA and Bay Area Suburbs. There's little evidence to say that Prop 8 fails if either Obama, McCain, Hillary Clinton or if GW Bush switches party and is somehow able to run again. The only situation where this argument that Obama was responsible for the defeat of Prop 8 would hold is if there was an option moving Prop 8 to an odd year election where there isn't another major race. That wasn't the case here.
As Deckard noted its true that there are many Democrats who don't hold the same values even there though it doesn't make much sense to pin this on the Obama campaign or even on he Democratic party. In then end this was an issue that transcended party. I will give you a flip example in South Dakota an ammendment to define a fertilzed egg as a person was defeated. McCain carried South Dakota so its very likely that many people voted for McCain and against that ammendment. Would it make sense to blame the McCain campaign or the RNC that if many of those who voted for McCain hadn't voted then that ammendment might've passed?
i'm not blaming Obama- he is who he said he was- i'm blaming his supporters, who i suspect are in for a fair number of additional surprises.
