Prop 8 passes

Precicely why they shouldn't have tax-exempt status in the first place.

 

in the case of prop 8, it is religion-sponsored state.

and it is unconstitutional and a violation of civil rights.
they thought they could misle the voters by changing the constitution.

the Supreme Court will decide the Constitution, thank you.

 

And here I thought, We the people ran this country, not 9 people in a judicial system. I guess some people are willing to give away their freedom to get what they believe is right.

Also, lets not forget this belongs in the states rights, not the federal level. Gotta love giving all the power to the federal government, as I personally love the patriot act.

 

Civil rights are not states rights. The prop 8 was for CA only, but if it is found to violate civil rights then that will supercede any state authority.

The judicial system is there for a reason, and to have them decide constitutional matters isn't giving up any rights. It's following the rights and oulines of the constitution.

 

whats the federal statute that deals with gay marriage again?

the only thing I can find is the defense of marriage act signed into law by bill clinton in, what, 1993.

So you want to take away a church's tax based exemption b/c they were supporting federal legislation?

its irrelevant anyway because of the way that church collected money for this. It didn't use tithing money or anything like that that would force people who disagreed with the amendment to implicitly support it. They just asked for donations and spend the people's money who donated.

 

the 14th amendment was applied to the states. the states can offer MORE than the Constitution in terms of rights to its people...but it can't offer LESS. the Constitution is the bottom line threshold.

this is how the Supreme Court changed laws about segregation in the southern states that resisted it, otherwise. if you're going to be part of "these United States" then your laws have to be measured ultimately by the Constitution and the right of governments. does the state law pass constitutional muster?? that's the question.

it wasn't always this way....but you really lost this war when you were wearing grey. ok, not you specifically wearing grey.

 

I wasn't suggesting taking away anything. I was saying that if the Supreme court strikes down prop 8 because it denies equal rights to one group of people.

I was speaking not to the church's tax status, but to equal rights for all people.

 

o well, the other guy was.

But to the other point, I still don't see how the supreme court is going to strike down the defense of marriage act in order to find discrimination in not only California but all the other states who have passed similar amendments.

and if the dems in Congress are stupid enough to do it themselves, it'll literally be 1994 all over again and they know it.

In other words, not going to happen.

 

It might be 1964 all over again. But it isn't stupid to do the right thing, and ending discrimination against homosexuals is the right thing.

 

It only takes one case from one state to strike down or uphold the bans on gay marriage and I get the feeling this will eventually end up in the USSC. As Madmax pointed out the 14th Ammendment extends the power of the USSC to the states.

My own opinion is that given the make up of the USSC if a case is heard the bans will be upheld. There is no Constitutional right to marriage and its been left up to the states. Then again there is no enumerated Constitutional right ot privacy or to accessibility and cases regarding those have been upheld. Still it seems unlikely that the current court would overturn a state ban on gay marriage.

Considering both President and Vice-President don't support gay marriage I doubt this issue will pass or even be a big issue in Congress anytime soon.

 

I believe that a church can indeed comment on issues... they just can't support particular candidates for elective office.

 

and here I thought we were all entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness under equal law. let's see what that good old constitution has to say about it...

let's see what our good friend, the Constitution, has to say about jurisdiction.

 

rick warren apologizes for support of prop eight


California mega-church pastor and author of The Purpose Driven Life Rick Warren says he apologized to his homosexual friends for making comments in support of California's Proposition 8, and now claims he "never once even gave an endorsement" of the marriage amendment.




Monday night on CNN's Larry King Live, Pastor Rick Warren apologized for his support of Prop. 8, California's voter-approved marriage protection amendment, saying he has "never been and never will be" an "anti-gay or anti-gay marriage activist."

"During the whole Proposition 8 thing, I never once went to a meeting, never once issued a statement, never -- never once even gave an endorsement in the two years Prop. 8 was going," Warren told the CNN audience on Monday. "The week before the -- the vote, somebody in my church said, 'Pastor Rick, what -- what do you think about this?' And I sent a note to my own members that said, I actually believe that marriage is -- really should be defined, that that definition should be -- say between a man and a woman."

However, just two weeks before the November 4 Prop. 8 vote, Pastor Warren issued a clear endorsement of the marriage amendment while speaking to church members. "We support Proposition 8 -- and if you believe what the Bible says about marriage, you need to support Proposition 8," he said.

The following is a complete transcript of Warren's comments just weeks before the Prop. 8 election:

"The election's coming just in a couple of weeks, and I hope you're praying about your vote. One of the propositions, of course, that I want to mention is Proposition 8, which is the proposition that had to be instituted because the courts threw out the will of the people. And a court of four guys actually voted to change a definition of marriage that has been going for 5,000 years.

"Now let me say this really clearly: we support Proposition 8 -- and if you believe what the Bible says about marriage, you need to support Proposition 8. I never support a candidate, but on moral issues I come out very clear.

"This is one thing, friends, that all politicians tend to agree on. Both Barack Obama and John McCain, I flat-out asked both of them: what is your definition of marriage? And they both said the same thing -- it is the traditional, historic, universal definition of marriage: one man and one woman, for life. And every culture for 5,000 years, and every religion for 5,000 years, has said the definition of marriage is between one man and a woman.

"Now here's an interesting thing. There are about two percent of Americans [who] are homosexual or gay/lesbian people. We should not let two percent of the population determine to change a definition of marriage that has been supported by every single culture and every single religion for 5,000 years.

"This is not even just a Christian issue -- it's a humanitarian and human issue that God created marriage for the purpose of family, love, and procreation.

"So I urge you to support Proposition 8, and pass that word on. I'm going to be sending out a note to pastors on what I believe about this. But everybody knows what I believe about it. They heard me at the Civil Forum when I asked both Obama and McCain on their views."

During his CNN interview on Monday, Warren expressed regret for backing Prop. 8. "There were a number of things that were put out. I wrote to all my gay friends -- the leaders that I knew -- and actually apologized to them. That never got out," he admitted.

Additionally, Pastor Warren said he did not want to comment on or criticize the Iowa Supreme Court's decision last week to legalize same-sex "marriage" because it was "not his agenda."

Bryan Fischer with the Idaho Values Alliance says Warren is abdicating his biblical role as a pastor. "For Pastor Warren to say that shoring up marriage is not something that's on his agenda is just something that's hard to believe for somebody who believes the Bible is our rule for faith and practice," Fischer notes.

Dr. Jim Garlow, the senior pastor of Skyline Wesleyan Church in the San Diego suburb of La Mesa, helped spearhead the Prop. 8 effort in California. Garlow admits he is confused and troubled by Pastor Warren's decision to apologize for supporting Prop. 8.

"Historically when institutions and individuals back away from convictional biblical truth, it is driven primarily by one single factor -- and that is the respectability of other people. In other words, much more caring about what other people think about them than what God thinks about them," he concludes.

Pastor Warren did not respond to a request from OneNewsNow for an interview.

 

When I read this, it echoes the Democratic segregationist struggle where the Dems basically cut loose the White South in favor of minority rights.... only this time, they may be cutting loose the Black South in favor of other minority rights. Time keeps on tickin...

 

You say that as if it is something to be proud of. Famous crack smoking incident aside, the man is one of the biggest demagogues and drama queens in the history of politics.

If Berry agrees with you, as a rule of thumb you are on the wrong side of the issue.

 

You are on the side of the issues that black people don't like "the gays". That is your stance. That is Barry's stance.

You are both wrong, and you are both just trying to stir up s--t to win political points and create conflict. There are 7 black DC council members, and 6 of them voted in favor of gay marriage. Nobody but the court jester seemed to think there was any problem.

 

black folks holding down the gay man.


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