Prop 8 passes

The only examples I have are what I've seen and heard about in my own life experience. (I'm white, btw.) I don't have polls/stats to back up my generalization. I'm an opera singer (as is basso, ergo the short threadjack) and I am friends with literally hundreds of gay men because that's who I work with. A good number of them are black.

All gay men face some discrimination, but gay black men in the black community have it worse IMO. It's an issue of culture. I think the major disagreement here comes down to this: what I call "discrimination" others call "core values." Or "morals." Or whatever. In my experience black american culture is more conservative and homophobic.

However- blaming the passing of prop 8 on the black community is bull**** when it's the conservatives who put the ballot out there and raised millions in funding for GOTV to "protect marriage."

 

well thanks for explaining where you're coming from, I disagree, but I can understand your perception if you've heard some horror stories. are heterosexual black males more willing to accept gay men as their friends, and interact in life on a day to day basis, maybe maybe no. I could understand if the perception were no.

 

Yeah I mean none of that is actual proof it is mostly circumstantial. Even though I believe it is a choice I do not see a problem with them choosing it and then choosing to get married.

 

It will probably be tomorrow before I can get too detailed, but it's all about epigenetics - turning genes off/on via environmental cues/signals, etc. The phenotype (expressed trait) changes even though the genotype (genetic makeup/DNA) stays the same. It happens through a few different mechanism - from methylation of DNA so that it can't be read (specifically the base cytosine gets a methyl group attached to it in the promoter region) changing the histone proteins so that the DNA to be read is now unreachable, or through miRNAs (bits of RNA that silence genes post-transcription - they are part of the so-called non-coding region of DNA since they aren't translated into proteins - by bonding to the mRNA before it can be translated) and the like. It's a fascinating area of research these days with implications on everything from cancer to schizophrenia.

Epigenetics would explain what Blanchard, Boggart, Klassens and the rest (Which papers have you read by the way, and what were your issues with them?) with respect to the H-Y antigen effect and how mothers have "memory" of sons born already as the DNA is altered (or suppressed post-transcription) without being actually changed.

 

Man > Animal. I'm not trying to come across like an ass, I'm seriously asking you......what do believe seperates man from animal? I'm merely asking because I don't understand the logic of comparing animal behavior to human behavior.

 

I had a bunch of hamsters that started eating their babies.

 

We are animals.

 

If you take the time to post it, I'll take the time to read it.

 

Nice! I saw what you did there.

Sorry if my generalization was offensive- but I do recognize it for what it is: a generalization.

 

That's the spirit!

 

Way to throw your babysitter under the bus there.

So since your West African babysitter won't work for Gays so Obama supporters are intolerant bigots. C'mon Basso you vehemently support candidates who have made opposing gay marriage a platform in their campaigns. You of all people should understand that the major parties and successful campaigns are coalitions and people support them for different reasons. You're portraying this though as people like your babysitter are single issue voters voting for Obama because he opposes Gay Marriage.

 

Lets just agree that there are a bunch of homophobes in both parties. Considering that out of the last two Presidential elections there hasn't been a standard bearer who supports gay marriage this is an issue that transcends both parties.

 

True there is no determinative test yet regarding a biological basis as the research in this is still in its infancy. Personally my own view is that there is some biological basis that leads to a tendency towards homosexuality that are affected by environmental conditions. So at most its a choice driven by some strong tendencies.

Given the amount of what we are finding out though regarding things like genetics and neo-natal development influence our behaviors I think there is a very strong indication that this isn't much of a choice.

 

Considering you make the argument that Mother Nature made you heterosexual you are arguing that nature, evolution, God, or whatever you call it designed you a certain way (ie equipped you with a particular set of hardware). Consider though that that force also designed every other living being beyond the level of reptiles with fixed genders. So if you are going to fall on the argument that Mother Nature made you heterosexual well then so she also made birds and mammals heterosexual too.

Under the Mother Nature argument for heterosexuality or homosexuality then looking at animals makes perfect sense since the same force designed them also.

 

basso, here is an actual analysis of the facts for you:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/11/7/34645/1235/704/656272

(Way too long to post here)

 

the only thing he did is basically boil it down to say that even if blacks had voted like the rest of the people who voted, it still would have passed.

I don't think the point of the thread is "who do we blame" because the answer is whoever voted yes.

The point was that the black vote did tip the scales a bit.

Its not just republicans that are blaming blacks either, the Daily Show ripped them for it also.

 

No, basso specifically said it would have failed if not for the increased black turnout. He was corrected numerous and continued to post it repeatedly.

 

I think homosexuality is just a sexual fetish.

 

Oh please don't pay your taxes, that kinda protest would be freakin awesome!

If everyone stopped paying taxes we could have the governments attention quite quick.