Not implying anything to do with race, gabs. That's basso's game . Just not as willing as Deck and Bat's to project my ideals on Obama on an issue on which not everyone agrees. He's been consistent on his stance on gay marriage. Hillary is also against gay marriage, and I think she is also wrong. He does favour acceptance (tollerance?) of gay people, and civil unions, and gay rights, but doesn't extend that to right of marriage.
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I don't think he needed to oppose gay marriage to get black votes if that's what you're asking. Possibly opposing gay marriage and actively supporting civil unions appeased the 'overall' population -- and possibly it was calculated? But I don't see why. I find it more likely he was simply against gay marriage for the same reasons that many others are against gay marriage. I just happen to think he's wrong, and am not willing to blame it on others, or political gamemanship because I like him on other issues.
giving him a pass on what, you're just typing. i've just posted how obama openly addressed this issue at a black church
The difference with some Republicans is that they not only are against gay marriage they openly advocate a consitutional amendment on the subject. That isn't true for all Republicans, and for the record I am against anyone being against gay marriage. While you've proclaimed your support, you never really brought it up when discussing what a conservative candidate was in discussion.
surely you can grasp the cynicism in lecturing this church on their responsibilities, while simultaneously affirming your commitment to discrimination on religious grounds? let me provide you with a small example of what i'm talking about. Our babysitter is from West Africa, and belongs to an evangelical, french speaking church up in Harlem. i've been to some of their services, and they go on for hours, in french, in a way that would make any white pentecostal feel right at home (well, except for the dark black faces). She thought George Bush was too liberal, specifically citing his "tolerance" of gays. about six months ago our needs had changed, and she was looking for another job with our help. a fantastic opportunity came along, just down the street in a well know building on the park. they were willing meet her price, give her flexible hours, two young children, and they specifically wanted someone who spoke french. perfect fit, right? except, it turned out to be a two daddy family, and once she realized that she wouldn't even interview with them, saying it would be against her religion. She voted for Obama.
basso several things a, obama's not going to change people's minds on this issue, b) she could have voted for mccain, also against gay marraige, so she probably voted for obama for other reasons, as a matter of fact i'm sure she did. I don't know what your point is and lastly, i'm sure obama speaking at that church against his political livelihood is a lot more than bush, mccain, or hillary have eva done on the subject.
What exactly is your point? You voted for Bush and you claim to be for gay rights. And your white. So what.
pgabriel, I disagree with you here. I think Obama could definitley change people's minds on this (and many other issues), especially in the black community. Barring some catastrophe, he will likely be the preeminent African-American leader for a generation. His power to influence opinion will be immense.
it depends, I don't think acceptance of gay people in the black community is nearly the problem as it is perceived. there are no hate crimes, there are plenty of gay members of black churches, and whatever other life situations you can think of. its not the big deal that people make it out to be. I think some right wingers like to point it out for its irony, but the simple fact is, other than this awkward occurance, blacks aren't the people keeping gay people from enjoying full civil rights in this country. unfortunately when you put things like this on a ballot, people will make a choice, probably for the wrong reasons. its complicated, black people took the opportunity to vote against this, but black people aren't the people fighting for this to be voted upon. so, what is obama going to change?
i've been quite critical of any number of republicans on this issue. i think the problem is you're unwilling to be critical of obama (or any other democrat) on any issue.
wrong again. there is nothing to be critical about. its not that big of an issue to me (forgive me, I wish gay people had the right to get married for their sake, its just not a big of a deal to me) I'm not going to go through a list of things that I've been critical of obama about. I will say this, i've posted to you where obama has taken this issue head on. someone else has posted that obama asked people not to vote for this, other than that, what do you want him to do. his faith dictates that he thinks gay marraige is wrong, all i can do is take him at face value for that. and appreciate the fact that he doesn't try to legislate his morality on anyone else. and that's where he and bush are different
I agree with most, if not all, of what you said above. I don't think homophobia is a "black" problem any more than it is a "white" problem. And as you say, while a significant % of blacks may have voted for Prop 8, they weren't the ones responsible for it being on the ballot in the first place. However, what Obama could change in a more positive direction are African-American attitudes toward gays. (Again not that this is specifically a black problem, I'm only pointing this out because I think Obama will have a particularly strong influence among blacks that he will be less among whites.)
There's plenty to bash Bush on, but he certainly hasn't been anti-gay. In fact, if anything, he might have been the President who most quietly promoted gay administration members and most strongly supported AIDS research. There was this article from back in 2002. He appointed Mark Dybul to a higher position than any President has ever appointed an openly gay official (unless Janet Reno came out of the closet without me knowing about it). Heck, his first Press Secretary was Scott McClellan, who might not be gay, but anyone from Austin can tell you that his boyfriend is. I know that gay rights people were angry about his appointment of John Ashcroft, but as far as I remember, it was much ado about nothing.
wes, Bush may or may not be personally anti-gay. I don't know and don't think it's particularly important. To the degree that he's supported AIDS programs and appointed people who are openly gay, he deserves credit (but not for the closet cases). None of this erases the fact that he is the leader of a political party that has aggressively used homophobia as a wedge issue, most prominently in recent years through ballot initiatives. Believe me, I don't think the Democrats are squeaky clean in this area, but the Republican party pushes this stuff aggressively.
