Prop 8 passes

Major, what you're missing is that basso thinks his focus on national security justifies his stunning intellectual dishonesty. In his mind, anything that damages the Democrats or helps Republicans, whether true or not, is good. Not because he's a Republican, but because he fancies himself a national security patriot who is fighting the good good fight against Democrat appeasers.

 

Yes, that's because he, like you, chose the lazy route and decided that Obama only increased black turnout, while ignoring the reality that he also increased turnout amongst other groups that voted against it. Notice how none of the "analysis" that argues your position ever considers the effect of the increase in youth turnout. Why? Because it's shoddy analysis.

 

I'm afraid I agree. Black-American culture is macho and homophobic. It's even worse in the culture of black southern baptists. Blacks have fought a long and storied battle for their rights- but many discriminate against gays. It's hypocritical.

I, too, am disappointed in the Obama/Biden opposition to gay marriage. It's so anti-progressive. But, to give Obama a shred of credit, I have seen him confront the issue in a black church. "We have not been accepting of our gay brothers and sisters." Met with dead silence. This was not a comfortable or popular subject to bring up. Obama doesn't shy from speaking truth to power. He is now one of the most important figures in all of African American history, so it would be a big understatement to say he has some leverage with the black community to slowly alter their perception. Here's hoping.

 

alright, here we go down this ugly road of comparing gay rights now to civil rights in the sixties which is a ridiculous comparison (i know I'm about to get jumped on but that is fine)

no one is stopping gay people's kids from going to school with everyone else. no one stopping gay people from getting equal justice in the court room. no one is stopping gay people from voting or running for public office. so this notion that christian blacks owe it to gays to vote for or against this propositions because of black history is ridiculous.

this is one issue, gay marraige. I know that gay people do no legally have civil rights protection under the law, but that is another issue.

 

another ridiculous statement about black people and black culture. beyond the realm of black music, i doubt you can provide any examples to back up this statement

edit: and how do blacks discriminate against gays, I'll love to hear this?

 

And interesting take on this:

http://townhall.com/columnists/JonahGoldberg/2008/11/07/progressivisms_achilles_heel?page=full

 

Wrong Wrong Wrong

The only reason this was on the ballot is because conservatives put it on the ballot. its not the same as gun right enthusiast who happen to be poor or whatever. there are clear choices between the parties.

everyone's trying to blame this on black christians to bring out the issue that black christians or just as or more anti homosexuality as white christians, but the simple fact is the people who go so far as to even make these political issues is the right wing of the republican party. blame who put it on the ballot in the first place, let's start from there and then discuss this.

 

you've already waffled back and forth on it being obama's fault/black people's fault blah blah blah. be a man and state your real starting position

 

so you're back to blaming it on black people, are you going to stick by this going forward?


the problem comparing this to what the republicans do to get out the right wing vote is that the republicans need issues like this to bring out their voters. hence, it was republicans who put this on the ballot. the financial conservative republicans need gun right, christianity, etc. to get out their base.

black people would have come out and voted for obama regardless of this issue being on the ballot. because in the end, black people don't vote on issues of gay rights. so yes, this may be one rare occassion where two groups gays/christian blacks have opposing views but this was still a right wing issue starting out.

and btw, i wouldn't automatically assume that all or even an over whelming majority of gay people are democrats.

 

What do you think is the answer to this question:

If Obama came out against Prop 8 and for gay marriage (instead of against Prop 8 and against gay marriage) would his supporters (regardless of race) have voted more in line with his views and defeated the proposition?

 

I think it could have made a difference. Obama not coming out with that position was a political calculation, designed not to give the GOP a hot-button issue to use against him. He's not the first to do that. On a personal level, I can't admire that, but on a political level, it was the smart thing to do. Getting elected President trumped Prop 8. Obama can do far more good as President by appointing Federal judges that support equal rights, regardless of sexual orientation, so I understand the calculus.

 

I would say no. I don't think it would have made a difference at all.

People tend to feel very strongly about this "issue" for some reason (which is ironic seeing as how it really doesn't affect them at all unless they're gay......) and I don't see them voting against their beliefs just because their choice for President does.

 

Does the Democratic Party Platform say anything about gay marriage? (not trying to cause trouble, just curious)

 

Not sure why you guys are willing to give Obama a pass on this. Possibly his 'political calculation' was in opposing Prop 8, and he is truly against gay marriage (though for civil unions). He's been pretty consistent about this.

 

I don't know if you're implying this but it is not a political caluculation for obama to oppose gay marraige to make himself more black.

There was a speech he gave in the primary, I believe in Georgia, in front of black crowd where he openly confronted the issue of black people and gays.

in a black church