The Bulls have a plan as long as Rose can play. If for some reason he couldn't, then no plan. Doesn't that sound familiar?
Rose will play again. At what level, I can't say. At the very least, they ARE a playoff team. Joakim Noah also went down during the playoffs and Luol Deng has been playing injured this whole season. To say they don't have a plan is pretty ridiculous. You and I both know that their "collection of assets" are far more attractive than ours. If they wanted to make a move and head in another direction instead of building around Rose, they have the pieces to do it.
My point was, a plan is only as good as the players necessary to accomplish it. It is not ridiculous to say that without Rose, whatever plan they had would change.
I understood what you meant. I'm also trying to point out the fact that the Bulls don't have to deviate from their current plan surrounding Rose, but if they were to decide that they should, they could. I totally agree with you on the notion that a plan is only as good as the players necessary to accomplish it. Now my question to you is, what in the last 3 seasons would suggest to you that we have the players necessary to execute "our plan" and what exactly is "our plan"? -Aside from my understanding that we are chasing superstars. Which superstars are we targeting exactly? What will we have to give up for the superstar? Will what we have left following a trade be enough for a superstar (we saw how the T-Mac thing went down)? Etc, etc, etc.... With so many variables to play with, it's better to establish a foundation first. Whether its tanking to obtain a star caliber player or trading for a superstar player. The foundation has to be set first, before the house is built. All I'm suggesting is that the Rockets have had enough time to figure out whether or not their plan of "chasing a superstar" is a feasible plan. The team is at-best a mediocre team and judging from our success in attracting and obtaining top-flight stars in the league (i.e. the pursuit of Melo, Bosh, Amare, Gasol, Howard, you-name-it-we've-probably-tried-pursuing), it doesn't seem like anybody else in the league feels compelled to give us the time of day. Our "assets" simply aren't as great as management is making them out to be. I think that's a pretty fair assessment. I'm not trying to place all the blame on Morey, because I think he's done a decent job with the hand he's been dealt, but this all starts at the top of the organization with Les Alexander and the choices that he makes. First and foremost, the NBA is a business. The players understand that (maybe except Odom and Martin), the coaches understand that, the owners certainly understand that, and I would say to a large degree the fans understand that. As with ANY sort of business, the success of a business is judged by their results. Simply put, the Rockets haven't produced the necessary results to keep the fans engaged. When you hear about Alexander's refusal to to even consider tanking as an alternative and you see all those empty seats at Toyota Center, it does make you wonder why the owner won't even give it a stab.
You really cant have much of a plan until you have a core to build around. Our plan went down the tubes when McGrady and Yao couldnt play anymore. So, the interim plan if you will is to establish a new core. So far we havent been able to do that, so that is why we have no plan other than to accumulate the most talent we can and hope/pray its enough to trade for a player that a team can be built around. This is the only plan Les has allowed Morey to pursue. The Charlotte plan hasnt been on the table.
Something did happen. It got reversed. Again we had a significant deal that was done that was reversed that would have significantly altered the Rockets. You do understand that the deal was done right? And we got f'ed in the a by the commish? Yes how fans view and deem a successful depends on wins and playoff wins, whether it is fair or not. However, if you took a position that is "unfair", basically you come off as someone who uncompromising and less intelligent because you simply dismiss and/or don't understand the complicated nature that is the world of basketball.
Hey, I totally agree with you. The Rockets need to figure out pretty quick whether or not their plan is working. Fans are getting pretty restless out there and if the team doesn't see some results (at the very least a playoff appearance), they might as well move their games to my old high school gym. The McGrady-Yao situation is a rather unfortunate one, but I think it's something that all teams will experience at some point or another. One thing that Hillboy pointed out earlier was the fact that management didn't find the proper pieces to place around McGrady and Yao while they were still capable. At one point, we were trotting out the likes of Flava Flav (Bobby Jackson), Ryan Bowen, etc...I mean it wasn't exactly a pretty mixture out there. As for the comparison to the Spurs, when Robinson retired, nobody expected the Spurs to be in contention the years immediately following that. Turns out, the organization had already been planning for that day and had assembled a team that was well-equipped to fight on heading into the future. The transition was as seamless as it gets. The Spurs haven't missed a beat since the retirement of Robinson and still continue to "wow" us even today. Whether or not you lose a superstar to injuries or to retirement is irrelevant. You simply have to be prepared for ALL situations.
I do understand that the deal was practically signed sealed and delivered. Gasol's effect on the team is debatable. My point is though, if we had the pieces heading into the season, why couldn't we strike a deal heading towards the trade deadline? It's the reason I question whether or not we actually had the "assets" to get the deal done with the Lakers simply by ourselves. In the original deal the Lakers were getting Chris Paul. New Orleans was getting our package of "assets". If our "assets" were good enough to get the deal done, how come we didn't just deal with the Lakers straight up? It's a fair question.
Because as I've said basketball is a complicated. Sometimes you only get one shot, sometimes you get a few shots at a certain player. Simply having assets doesn't get you a trade, the other team has to be willingly to play which involves their current situation. It seems like you keep arguing in circles. I am simply arguing what happened, if you want to interject a bunch of what ifs then fine. Bottomline, we had a deal done that would have significantly altered the Rockets better or worse that got reversed.
And the Rockets got Morey from Boston and we immediately started drafting well. Then the chronic injuries occurred. Lolz. The Spurs tanked to get Duncan. I haven't seen any Duncan's in any drafts since Yao has retired. Anthony Davis looks interesting, but Duncan is pretty special. To the bolded, being prepared to doesn't ensure that'll you land a hall of famer when you tank. You and others are severely dismissing the amount of luck (among planning and skill) it took the Spurs to get to where they are and even the Thunder.
I'm not dismissing any sort of "luck" that the Spurs had. You don't just "luck" into 13 consecutive 50+ win seasons, sell-out crowds, and championship contention. That definitely takes some great planning and forward thinking on the part of management. I think you are belittling their success by saying they've "lucked" into all these winning seasons and years of consistently staying at the top. The Spurs have gone through their fair share of injury issues, retirements, good/bad moves, but they are competitive year in and year out. The credit that their front office receives is well-deserved.
You're right, I should stop having discussions with you but it's been pretty slow at work. I'm really just trying to get you to see the futility, that is your argument. Here's the deal: The Rocket's have a plan (a blueprint) that they have been following. So far it hasn't worked and you're (many fans) upset/frustrated/confused/etc, which is all good since these are normal emotional reactions. However, your argument is just silly and has caused you to have tunnel vision. Look the Rocket's aren't going to make a trade to make a trade, if you get what I mean. Morey has his eye's set on a big fish and he isn't going to blow his wad for just anyone. I'm pretty sure Les considered tanking, it would be a stupid business move to not consider it. Perhaps what you mean is that you wish he would execute the tanking strategy. I just don't see this organization actually tanking, that is not putting the best lineup on the floor. I can definitely see them rebuilding through the draft, but not tanking.
Sigh, do you just skim through what I write? Do you not see me attributing the Spur's success to both their management and good fortunes. They have the best front office, but it's not something easily replicated.
My bad, I should have phrased that a bit differently. Some people are attributing the Spur's success completely to luck. Well, I think we agree on the the subject that the Spurs front office has been more competent than the Rockets over the course of the last decade and a half. I am in no way suggesting that the Rockets front office sucks, but there are definitely things to be learned considering what they've been able to accomplish. They had the good fortune of obtaining Duncan though the draft back in 97', but they haven't looked back since. Their record and playoff success speaks for itself. It is impressive to say the least. We "lucked" into Yao Ming in 2002, yet we haven't seen nearly the same array of success as the Spurs have. I think the Rockets front office upgraded when they were able to nab Morey. I'm not sure if his hands are somewhat tied and if this particular route is the way he would have taken if given 100% control of the rein, so I don't blame him for the moves he's attempted to make. However, responsibility for the team's lack of success has to fall somewhere and it starts at the very top with Les. I'm hopeful that the Rockets will re-evaluate this off-season and go from there. I'm just gonna sit back and relax and enjoy the rest of the playoffs and hope the Rockets have a good plan in place.
Houston's a football city. Not really great for attendance or fan support outside of that unless the team is on the brink of winning a championship. There's only a handful of cities that have big markets that support their teams even through bad times so it's not really a knock on Houston. We're just a typical sports city that LOVES football over everything else.
Absolutely! This organization was caught flat-footed after that last championship. I attribute this squarely on Les' because he dismissed Steve Patterson - the man who'd put together those championship teams - and replaced him with Carroll Dawson who absolutely screwed up placing a supporting team around Hakeem. While they managed to draft some pretty good players in the 90s (Sam Cassell, Othella Harrington, Michael Dickerson, Cuttino Mobley and Kenny Thomas), the organization simply did not manage the process well at all and by 1997, the team had begun to show its age. Without younger players ready to fill in, the Rockets began their long decent into mediocrity. CD's response was to swing for the fences because they still had Hakeem - all they needed was to pair him with another "star" player (sound familiar?). It proved to be a fatal error on the part of the organization. In 1997, CD sends Sam Cassell, Robert Horry, Chucky Brown and Mark Bryant to Phoenix for Charles Barkley. In 1998, CD next replaces the retiring Clyde Drexler with Scottie Pippen who's then gone after one season to Portland. CD gets Walt Williams, Stacey Augmon, Kelvin Cato, Ed Gray, Carlos Rogers and Brian Shaw for Scottie "Quitten". By 2000, it all comes unraveled as Hakeem goes down to injury and Barkley suffers the knee injury in Dec. 99 and retires after the last game of the season. Stevie Franchise shows up in 1999 and becomes your star player as Olajuwon fades. By 2001, Olajuwon is also done and gone. The Rockets DNQ for the playoffs for the next 3 seasons and the die is cast. Where they are today as a team and a franchise is the result of the total mismanagement of the team after the championship years. During Hakeem's later years, I felt that the Rockets needed to reinvent themselves in order to continue to compete at the highest level. You will note that this is exactly what SA has done to maximize their use of Tim Duncan. Under Les & CD's leadership, this NEVER happened and they (Rockets) kept trying to recreate what had worked for them in 94 & 95 because that's all they knew how to do but time and the changes in the NBA worked against them. And they never had a clue. So when Yao Ming shows up in 2002, all Les & CD could see was the next Hakeem Olajuwon - well actually all Les could see was ALL of the money to be made in China - and thus began the search to find the next Clyde Drexler whom they found in Orlando in 2006 which was followed by more years of their working CD's plan and that has sure turned out well hasn't it? I just don't know. Would things have been different if Steve Patterson had stayed? Most definitely and I have to wonder how those post championship teams would have looked with a guy like Morey drafting instead of CD & Rudy T. I do believe that Morey would have never done the Barkley, Pippen and Eddie Griffin deals and I also feel that he would have managed Hakeem's later years much better than did CD. Morey strikes me as a GM would have put together a far better team around an aging Hakeem due to his superior ability to draft players in the later rounds. I also believe that the situation in which he's now facing is one in which he is at a loss as to what to do so he simply follows the path that's least scary: a minor tweak here, a small move there, replace that brown deck chair with a white one and so on. His biggest mistake was to come in and not change the direction of the franchise away from the philosophy of Dawson. Instead, he continued to follow what is now recognized as a flawed plan and the end result has been that he too has failed to deliver in much the same way as did his predecessor. Now there's a legion of fanboys and Rocketsheep who want to give him a pass for a variety of reasons but the bottom line is results and so far, under Morey, this franchise has continued to come up short while other teams in their division and conference have managed to make strides and pass them. And that is why so many here are put off to see SA rolling through the playoffs once again along with OKC while teams like Utah, Indy, Philly and even Memphis show that they are farther along than the Rockets. And that's what really has to suck for those fans who have been there over the long haul because you could see the mistakes being made all the while knowing that it really didn't have to be that way. A very astute point and one that this entire organization would do well to ponder in the months ahead less they see the 2012-2013 season end up the same way as did the 2011-2012 season.
I like Patterson too, but Barkley and Hakeem was fun to watch and if it were not for the torn elbow ligament, I am sure they would have won a championship that year. DD
I can certainly see your point and as for the subject of luck, yes, with regards to injury, a team has to have luck in avoiding injuries in order to compete. This is a great post - thoughtful and well reasoned.
