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Project 2025: What is it really?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Rocket River, Apr 17, 2024.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    The danger of this cannot be understated.

    We’re already in Hurricane season so we really think that people working for NOAA should have there jobs because of political loyalty or for experience with dealing with severe weather?
     
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  2. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Trump's entire Presidency was clouded by the Democrats using our federal agencies and intel agencies, working in collaboration with foreign intel agencies, to push the Russian collusion lies. This was treasonous activity and fooled millions of people, which impacted public support for Trump and his policies. Funding for the border wall was withheld, support for the infrastructure bill was withheld -- two examples of many.

    Republicans are generally honest people with a moral core. Democrats are simply not. Most are not religious, or if they are, it's very superficial. So their conscience is not impacted in the least when they lie or cheat. Especially when they are emotional. Republicans like Paul Manafort and General Flynn were either thrown in jail or charged and had to take pleas to avoid financial ruin because the Russian collusion hoax. Our country was stalled out because of it. All because of dishonest people like Jake Sullivan, John Podesta, Hillary Clinton, Jim Clapper, John Brennan, etc.
     
  3. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    So you don't have any specifics. I didn't support collusion claims but any investigations didn't slow Trump's agenda.

    Dude was able to set up detention centers for children of migrants. Protecting the border falls under the executive branch so it was constitutional but he was able to do that among a lot of protest. Trump has never claimed bureaucracy held him back
     
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  4. Rileydog

    Rileydog Member

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    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Yes, let’s hire geniuses from the states with the least educated populations and have them run federal agencies. Need a scientist? Let’s get Jimmy out of the bayou. How about an engineer? What’s Martha in Marfa doing these days?

    This is totally on brand. It isn’t ability, intellect or qualifications that matter to Project 2025ers. No, it is fealty to their lord and savior Trump.
     
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  5. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Wow. Trump has never claimed bureaucracy held him back? Have you never heard his discussion of the Deep State? Did you not observe the Alexander Vindmans of the world undermining him and thwarting his efforts?

    And btw, the Obama Administration built the border cages -- not Trump. That's well known at this point.

    Many learning curves that you are sitting at the bottom of currently. I expected more from you, pgabs!
     
  6. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    this is the funniest thing you have posted in your 20+ years here jorge/texxx/mojoman/conqueefstador/whatever you call yourself these days.

    is this what you read in "two corinthians"? LOL! youre too much jorge!

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    I'll chime in with some specifics.

    These are some of the things (not an exhaustive list) that Trump wanted to do but was thwarted by the bureaucracy and/or his own administration. It should be noted that EVERY POTUS faces challenges and pushback within the bureaucracy and their own administration. These entities exist for good reasons: to advise the POTUS on what is acceptable legally and morally, and to raise red flags when the POTUS or members of his administration violate norms. They are primarily there to execute legal requests apolitically.

    Attempt to Overturn the 2020 Election Results.
    Trump pressured various officials, including then-Vice President Mike Pence, to reject Electoral College votes during the certification process on January 6, 2021. This culminated in the violent attack on the U.S. Capitol. Efforts included attempts to involve the Department of Justice in his election fraud claims, and pressuring state officials to "find" votes.

    Deploying the Military Domestically.
    Trump repeatedly discussed invoking the Insurrection Act to deploy military troops in response to Black Lives Matter protests in 2020. Senior military officials, including then-Secretary of Defense Mark Esper, resisted these efforts.

    Border Wall Funding Diversion.
    Trump declared a national emergency in 2019 to divert military funds for the construction of the U.S.-Mexico border wall after Congress refused to fully fund it. This faced legal challenges and opposition within his administration.

    Seizing Voting Machines. Trump considered ordering federal agencies to seize voting machines following the 2020 election, based on unproven allegations of widespread voter fraud. This idea was met with resistance from his advisors and legal counsel.

    Revoking Press Credentials.
    Trump frequently clashed with the media and considered revoking the press credentials of journalists and media outlets he deemed unfavorable. While some actions were taken, broader efforts were often blocked or reversed.

    Interference with Judicial Independence.
    Trump attempted to influence the Justice Department to protect his allies and investigate his adversaries. Examples include his pressure on DOJ officials regarding cases involving Michael Flynn and Roger Stone, and his repeated demands for investigations into Joe Biden and his family.

    Automatic Citizenship Revocation.
    Trump discussed using executive action to end birthright citizenship, a right guaranteed by the 14th Amendment. Legal advisors within his administration argued against this move.
     
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  8. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  9. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    When you read between the lines it's simple. It's Trump's plan to have his loyalists backing every move to slowly move towards an Dictatorship regime. It's all about Trump being King of his golden throne, and living like a king. They want to remove anyone who won't lie, cheat, or steal for Trump.

    They want to control who the FBI investigates, and take over the justice system to protect Trump at all cost. They want to ensure that any foreign influence peddling and tit for tat deals made with Putin and Kim Jong Un are never investigated by the FBI. They want to control the DOJ and protect Trump from any investigations of money being funneled to his businesses from home or abroad. They want to go after and remove or prosecute any political rivals.

    They want to protect the rich white collar criminals and use the National guard to go out with force against any Anti-Trump protesters. They want to take away from Americans in need, and give it all to the rich. They want to infuse White Nationalism and Far Right ideals, and strip more rights of women, minorities, and the LGBQT communities. They want to build an army of right wing extremists within, willing to bend and bow, with a yes sir to Trump. They want to cater to the schools for profit and strip funding for public funded schools. They want to cater to the healthcare for profit and pharmaceutical billionaires and screw those who want affordable healthcare. They want to cut regs that protect workers and the environment to coddle to the billionaires.

    They want to control the media and press, and insert Trump propaganda and lies, similar to what Putin, Hitler, Kim Jong Un and every other evil Dictator type leader does.

    It's a future that doesn't make the lives better for most Americans.
     
    #29 deb4rockets, Jun 25, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2024
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  10. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    It is an atrempt to end constitutional checks and balences. It's a move toward fascism and it isn't really even disguised.The only way to not recognize it is by imagining the emperor is wearing clothes.
     
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  11. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I think this argument is the kernel of populism and the essence of the threat to our republic. We have a constitutional republic that uses many tools to ensure representation, guard against corruption, and provide for due process and orderly governance. Even within the Executive branch, there are checks and balances to ensure a rogue actor like Trump can't just do whatever when he takes the reins of power.

    The Administrative State is not the 4th branch of government. It's part of the Executive branch, which is helmed by the president but tis a creature of the Legislative branch, and is overseen by the Judicial branch. The president is elected and he has some wide latitude to lead the Administration, but not a totally free hand. There are laws to be complied to. There are agency missions dictated by Congress to achieve. There is court oversight to answer to. There are past rulemakings agencies have made that will rule until another orderly rulemaking process is undergone to reform them. This is a just and reasonable approach and one long required by the courts because capricious changes in policy can have unintended, illegal, or unjust consequences for the people affected by them.

    Democracy is only one tool of many that we use to ensure the Republic. The populist wants to reduce everything to this singular event -- we picked this guy so he should be able to do whatever he wants. That attitude is an invitation to dictatorship. If you want to be free and you want your vote to matter then the last thing you want is to cede all your power to one guy who was the less bad option in an election. Trump is counting on the people not understanding this, and is counting on the people being impatient and being fearful. Make enough people forget, and we can do away with all this pedantic constitutional order and Trump can call all the shots himself.
     
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  12. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Just so many things wrong with your logic here. When 90+% of the Administrative State is liberal, then half of the country does NOT have representation with this entrenched class of bureaucrats. Furthermore, the legal system that you hold up as an impartial arbiter and check on power, has jury pools in DC and NY that are 90%+ liberal -- hardly a jury of peers and hardly impartial. The left has now weaponized this against political opponents (Trump, Manafort, Stone, Navarro, Bannon, etc). They are now fully utilizing these unelected bureaucrats and the biased jury pools to subvert democracy. How can anyone say that 12 jurors in Manhattan or DC can imprison the candidate that represents 80+ million voters? That's WRONG and it undermines democracy.

    Eric Ciaramella and Alexander Vindman's political actions led to Trump's impeachments -- two Administrative State actors who subverted the will of the people with their lies. Peter Strok, Lisa Page, John Brennan, Jim Clapper, Stephon Halper, Joseph Mifsud -- all worked to cook up the Russian collusion hoax which thwarted the plans of a duly elected President and caused chaos in our nation. All deep state actors and all subverting democracy.

    The Democrats ALWAYS do exactly what they accuse their Republican opponents of. Always. President Trump will restore democracy and give the power back to the people -- by shredding the dishonest, unelected, and unaccountable DC administrative state.
     
  13. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    More proof you're just playing a character. Jury pools aren't part of the "deep state". They aren't even part of the government and not overseen by the Executive branch. They are private citizens selected for a temporary role. Also defendants have the right to challenge their selection.

    Also great last line. President Trump will restore democracy and power to the people by putting in his own unelected and unaccountable DC administrative state. Projection indeed..
     
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  14. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Jury pools in 90+% districts are tools of the Deep State -- no doubt about it. Valuable tools used by very dishonest and anti-democracy actors (Democrats) to attack political opponents. Have you been paying attention in the last few years? Do you think all these indictments of politicians are coincidental?
     
  15. Jugdish

    Jugdish Member

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    I committed a crime and I got indicted...what are the odds??
     
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  16. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Is it a first-time-ever-used charge using a novel legal theory? Are you are Republican politician? Odds are high.
     
  17. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    This article finds a slight preference for Democrats among federal workers: Poll: Federal Employees Slightly Prefer Democrats in Upcoming Midterms - Government Executive (govexec.com). I'm not sure where you got your 90% figure, but it doesn't sound credible. But, in any case, the "Administrative State" workers are functionally non-partisan. The agency has a mission that was defined by Congress in legislation and they do their jobs as best they can to achieve that mission. The only latitude to be political is in the top jobs that are appointed and confirmed. By tradition and legislation, these usually have terms that are respected by the president (but don't have to be) which means decisions of some previous president may continue to resound into the next Administration, but that's not undemocratic even if they are uncooperative with their boss -- those officers were appointed and confirmed by a duly elected President and Senate. And in any case, none are entrenched. They have defined terms and usually there is turnover when the term runs out under a new president.

    Most of the judicial intersection with the rulemaking of the agencies does not involve juries at all. These courts are only making findings of law, not findings of fact which is the domain of the jury. There are Administrative Law Judges (ALJs) that conduct proceedings on the acceptability of administrative changes. Juries only become relevant when disagreements end up in a civil suit. Even then, juries are only finders of fact and they are greatly hemmed in by judges' instructions and findings of law. Juries have little room to exercise their partisan preferences in that setting. What's more, such civil suits don't have to be filed in New York or DC. And even for such cases that do get tried in New York and DC, there is a voir dire process to eliminate jurors who cannot be impartial.

    Now, you're being ridiculous. Those guys were prosecuted because they committed crimes. But everything I said above about civil suits over agency decisions is also true of the prosecutions of these criminals. Juries can only decide matters of fact within the judge's finding of law and his instructions to them. Juries don't have the ability to execute some political vendetta. I can forgive that most people don't understand how the agencies' labyrinthine rulemaking process works, but if you don't even believe in our judicial process writ large (because there will always be some injustices on the margins) I don't think you can call yourself a patriot.

    Those guys were doing their jobs and I don't think I have a problem with any of them (though I don't remember all of them).

    Trump always accuses his opponents of doing what he himself does in order to defuse the accusations against him. We noticed and pointed it out. And it's cute but inevitable I suppose for Trumpers to adopt that accusation too.
     
  18. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    Scary thought.
     
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  19. Mr.Scarface

    Mr.Scarface Member

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    "A Handmaid's Tale" becomes a documentary. If I were a woman, I would be TERRIFIED.
     
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  20. Rileydog

    Rileydog Member

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    Maybe, just maybe his ever rotating cast of characters and chaos that was his Cabinet thwarted his ability to do anything but grievance politics.

    Or maybe it was the legions of former Trump appointees across the entire federal government who can confirm he is unfit to lead.

    Or maybe it was because Trump had no real interest in governing or doing actual work, and instead only wanted to give stump speeches in front of his deplorables.
     
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