It would seem that Marc Jackson's smartest move would be to sign a one year contract somewhere that he can get substantial minutes & prove that last year's preinjury performance wasn't a fluke.
A couple things about that post: 1- The rockets "filler" at center will probably end up being Griffin, or if Rudy wants, Axel Dench. It is near impossible to trade for a center in the NBA today simply because every team needs one. 2- You're forgetting that Hill's team is Eastern Illinois, who did something Purdue, Richmond, Seton Hall, and Alabama didn't do - make the NCAA tourney. And he scorched the Nets beloved defensive stopper Richard Jefferson for 30 points. I think your underrating him just a bit. And plenty of undersized pg-sg have succeeded in the NBA - Dana Barros, Allen Iverson, Eddie House.
Oilepere, what are the odds that a signing coup, similar to last season's signing of Mo Taylor, could happen with Marc Jackson? Someone else already mentioned that it is in his best interest to sign for cheap somewhere where he knows he will get PT, and showcase his talent. What better place than Houston? Also, in the unlikely event that the Rice deal is nixed, are there any other teams that showed interest in Shandon, and if so, any players on that team that the Rockets might want?
Hottoddie: It really seems he is destined to sign with Golden State as his options are running out. But they (GSW) have to unload some bodies too. They’re flush with meat and yet have not very much depth when you look at the overall talent level at some positions. Marc Jackson would help them certainly and he would get the most $$$ from those guys you would think. A one-year deal? It would be nice to contemplate CD pulling something like that off, here but realistically he is probably destined for GSW. SuperSoaker wrote: “ … 1- The rockets "filler" at center will probably end up being Griffin, or if Rudy wants, Axel Dench. It is near impossible to trade for a center in the NBA today simply because every team needs one. Okay. But you maybe listening to too much Vecsey and Dave. They are postulating the same thing. But standing Griffin in there is not only suicide at this stage of his career, it is against everything that RT has said or demonstrated in the past. I could buy Axel Densch, Huffman, Pig, or someone else maybe be used to beef up the five spot, but believe me Griffin at center is way out of line as a winning or even practical startegy in this Western Conference. I think RT will definitely go with some light starters at specific times with Francis, Mobes, Rice, Griffin and Taylor at the 1-5 slots. But as an overall planned court set …. Without any fallback big guy to help … Uh huh. Still need a filler. Griffin second or third option at Center. Nope. 2- You're forgetting that Hill's team is Eastern Illinois, who did something Purdue, Richmond, Seton Hall, and Alabama didn't do - make the NCAA tourney. And he scorched the Nets beloved defensive stopper Richard Jefferson for 30 points. I think your underrating him just a bit. And plenty of undersized pg-sg have succeeded in the NBA - Dana Barros, Allen Iverson, Eddie House. No I wasn’t forgetting. I know he has talent. Boys don’t get into the NBA draft and get picked to play pro ball. Men do. I think he has his place. But …. he is still unproven. He is still on the short side for the one and two positions. He still was picked in the second round. He still has to carry and muscle his way with large men. I hope he plays way above what other more talented scouts and basketball people than I, have assessed him at ….i.e. second or third tier. Underrated him? I clearly outlined his gifts and his accomplishments. Underrated? I don’t think so.…. but don’t deny me that he is not some grand answer to the many questions we need to have answered about our roster. Don’t deny me the ability to see that although he is a talent, he needs to prove himself on a pro court. I hope he does. Mooch or Hill? ………… Mooch until proven otherwise. Sean Colson or Hill? ………… Hill until proven otherwise. Raven Lunatic: On the Rice announcement hold up! Medical approved Glen while negotiations were going on. The physicals with Glen in attendence is what is taking place now. Last I heard the physicals went almost as expected but the long term prognosis was in question. They have consulted some experts and because a lot is held in the balance (millions of $) they want everything covered. Remember Sean Elliott being traded to Houston from Detroit. Medical approved the trade from the Houston end. Then they examined him in person and did some lab work and found he was in far worse (read that as poorer prognosis) then the previousily available tests indicated. Even Detroit and Elliott didn't know the fuill extent of the testing. Sean Elliott trade was squashed. My guess is that Glen probably as far along in rehab as he is supposed to be. He is in pain when he stresses it. That is no surprise to anyone. But the Rockets medical consulting team (and these guys are good ... very,very good .... it would not be a lie to say they are among the best in the field) probably have some differing opinions on (1) the extent of recovery possible, (2) the time involved in that recovery propcess, (3) the prognosis (future) of the degeneration (caused by the injury) and (4) the rsultant increased risks on a worse case scenario basis. What can happen from here: 1. The Rockets rescind the offer based on undisclosed health problems. The deal falls through and we still have Shandon and side deals with dallas, etc ... are worked amiably as per the CBA. 2. The Rockets request a change in the deal to recompensate for added or increased risks due to an undisclosed mediacl hinderance. NY adds something to the package (within CBA rules)and everyone is happy. Effectively it is seen as a new deal but has the similiar and familiar features/components of the original. 3. The Rockets explore all possibilities and the medcial consultants agree that the questions have been answered and the risks have not changed. The deal is done. On the Shandon Question. Dang that will be fun to watch. Atlanta,detroit,Chicago ... a lot of teams srtill hunting. But do they have the money to spend or the heart (and intestinal fortitude) to trade with CD. My best guess would be Detroit and Chicago, if NY doesn't counter with w better or alternate offer.
Hmmmmm. So we have a precedent, huh? Someone has stated that NY probably knows more about Rice's injury than what is known, and that is why they were so willing to part with his contract even though they STILL endep up with a swingman glut. Looks like the damaged goods may be on their way back... and i'm all for it, as I dont think even a healthy Rice fits this team as much as some seem to think or even at all. Oeilpere, could you shed some light on which players from Atlanta, Detroit and Chicago (miller, i suppose) could be available in a sign and trade with Shandon? You just have confirmed what i thought, that there's still PLENTY of market for him, so we have nothing to worry about. I may be on the minority here, but I'm realling hoping that he fails his physical.
Yeah we touch on that here too....same rehash but precedented...http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20933&pagenumber=2
The guys mentioned from: Atlanta that I last heard ... and this was a long while back .... was Nazr (who has since signed as a FA and is unavailable) and DeMarr Johnson (but the matchup salaries for him won't even come close). Chicago was Miller as you surmised. Also Curry, but before anyone has a fit and starts sputtering .... that offer/talk/subject was never substantiated ... and I have never given it much credence because of that lack of confirmation. Detroit was a deal that Fegan tried to put together. It had to involve some real scrubs though, as Wallace and a couple of others would be all I would take. Most of the guys are either not needed by us (Mateen Cleaves), sewn up in appreciation/intouchable mode (Wallace), too expensive (Stackhouse) or simply not available due to contract dates (Robinson). If Detroit or Atlanta are included we would probably be talking a third party involved. IMHO anyway.
Cato + Shandon for a combination of Curry + Miller + Artest is the stuff dreams are made of... This has to be done fast though, as it seems that Chicago is closing on the consonant (Wally SCZ) and if they get him, I suppose Shadon wouldn't be of any use to them... But one thing at a time. First we need confirmation that my prayers have been answered and Rice is back to NY... much to the delight of his gorgeous wife, BTW
just want to clarify pops' #1 point. We don't "have Shandon" as in have his Cato contract, but as in his bird rights, before anything tumbles off that. Just another fine point, but Curry is yet to sign according to nba.com and espn.com. Means absolutely nothing at all. Hehe, you know, the more you think about it, the more people that could be absolutely ticked off by the Rockets voiding the trade. Let's make a list: 1. New York Knicks- Sprewell doesn't want him there, Rice doesn't like Sprewell, great for chemistry, not to mention the Rice experiment failed miserably last year. 2. Shandon Anderson- An ok player loses his chance at Cato pay, and he can't exactly come back to the Rockets now. 3. Dan Fegan- Gets a "screw you" note from the Rockets, and has to find either another sign and trade, or less money. 4. Dallas- Have to keep/pay Howard Eisley and find another way to open a slot for T-Bug. 5. Tim Hardaway- Has to figure out a better way to get to Dallas, or go elsewhere. For the Rockets, it doesn't completely hurt them. There are a lot of ways to spend 10 million dollars in cap space. Still nothing new on 610. Something sure seems to be up if it's now close to 7 hours after the fact. They had me thinking it was done, when the Sports Flash person said "It's a done deal" then proceded to talk about some Lindros deal. Thanos-Oh what a sweet dream that is. As for Scz, Walt can provide something similar to Wally's shooting, at a MUCH cheaper price (talent). Do you want him Krumbs?
OP, Thanks for the feedback, but I wasn't referring to him signing here specifically. I've been hearing that, because he hasn't received any offer sheets yet, that GSW may low ball him. My comment was directed more towards what might be in his best interest, even if it means he resigns with GSW for one year. Seattle might be another option for him at the minimum or there abouts. This, of course, all depends on whether or not he believes in himself enough to wait one more year for the big money.
Man, hopefully this Rice deal goes through. If the Rockets are looking for "compensation" or something extra, is it possible to get Othella Harrington oeilpere, or is New York set on keeping him, or think they can get something for him? He would be a nice low post addition, and could play some time at the center spot against certain teams like Sacramento, Minnesota, Utah, Milwaukee, and teams like that.
Hottoddie, The problem for Jackson is, he's already "waited" a few years -- first overseas, and then last year. If the big $$ wasn't there for him this year, who's to say it will be next year? There will still be a luxury tax. And GS will still have the right to match any offer he gets up to the $4.5M (or whatever) exception. (In fact, they'll even get a separate Early Bird exception to do that, so they can keep Jackson and still use the standard $4.5M exception on someone else.) Just as a guess, I think GS would love to give Jackson a one-year deal, even if it was for more $$ (say, one year at $4.5M instead of two years at $2-3M per year). By next summer they'll have a better idea about the health situation of Dampier/Foyle/Fortson and the readiness of Troy Murphy, and so will be better able to make decisions about their desired long-term C/PF rotation. Plus -- and this is probably more important -- an extra mid-size salary this year doesn't put them over the luxury tax threshold, whereas next year it probably does. So the idea of a multi-year commitment without unloading one from the current roster is probably the biggest barrier to GS re-signing Jackson right now. (P.S. Woohoo! 500 posts! )
Do we have to take Rice if he passes his physical even if the doctors say there is a strong chance of the problem reoccuring in the future?
I really like the idea of keeping Rice but asking for more compensation to offset the risk. Trying to get Harrington sounds ideal to me. We might have to throw in a pick or something else to make the salaries match up, but getting Othella back makes it worth taking a risk on Rice's injury IMHO. Shandon for Kyle Hill, Glen Rice and Harrington sounds like a steal to me, unless Rice's injury turns out to be quite serious, then it's just an average trade, but better than letting Shandon go for nothing. B
Wow. No The Freak post analyzing what Pops posted? No "we sat on our edge of our seats waiting for your take" sarcastic response? Next thing you know, there will be peace in the Middle East. Freak, I kid you THIS ONE TIME!
Swopa, I might be wrong, but my thinking is that a lot of teams were a little leery of signing him to a big, long term contract. With his injury & the fact that he was a rookie(with no NBA experience), it might've been considered too much of a risk. However, if he were to sign a one year deal & continue putting up the points & rebounds(while staying healthy) that he did before his injury, then teams would be lining up for him next year. I would guess that he'd probably get somewhere in the range of $5-7 mill per year. Even though he's undersized for a center, someone would probably move him to the PF position. What's his shooting range?
StupidMoniker, I'm aware that picks count as 0, but even if the numbers match up (we have flexibility with the trade exemption, Dallas would just get less of it I think), we may have to throw in a draft pick for the Knicks to be willing to give us Harrington to compensate for the extra risk due to Rice's injury. I think Harrington is worth more than a mid to late pick since he does have proven ability, so that is why I mentioned the draft pick. I shouldn't have mentioned the pick in my statement about salaries matching up. My concern is more than just salaries matching up, it's finding a way to make all the teams at ease with the trade, which draft picks tend to help out with. Anyways, yeah, I screwed up and was unclear in my post. B
Hottoddie Because Marc Jackson is a restricted FA, the Rockets can not sign him to a short-term deal. From Coon's FAQ's: "When another team wants to sign a restricted free agent, it signs the player to an offer sheet, the principal terms of which the original team is given 15 days to match. The offer sheet must be for at least three seasons." As I read this, the Rockets (or any other team besides GS) must sign Jackson to a mimimum of 3 years. Perhaps this is the reason the Rockets haven't shown any interest. Jackson has also been reported to be wanting a big contract. [color=royal blue]Hey, my 1.000th post - what a long strange trip it's been.[/color]
Nike: Yes that’s what I meant. “Have” means we are at back at square one,with the option to renounce, S&T him if he wants, etc… Hottoddie: Well I am of the mind that Seattle may in fact try to get him, too. GSW will have to counter. Seattle certainly needs him. Hell,in my opinion they both need him. But I also believe Swopa’s analysis … from what I have read and heard Marc Jackson thinks a lot of himself. That’s okay. Believing in your self is a proven way to succeed. I would be surprised he would take a one year low ball to “improve” his stance next year. Saleem: We have until Friday to agree to the terms as outlined. Before anyone starts their head spinning remember this - A deal is a deal if you can’t find “some problem” with the arrangement. On top of that, usually in these circumstances the receiving team (Rockets) would have to find something substantial enough as to be valid and still NOT hurt their reputation as a fair and equitable team to deal with in the future ….. more on this below. I don't think we have a problem in this case with either of those caveats. B: Harrington would be nice in my opinion, but the figures still have to matchup. If …. that is IF ….. the Rockets found something that would appear to minimize the value of the Rice trade one of their options COULD be to ask for more concessions. If that were the case NY would probably have to send some picks or other “value” that would not infringe the existing CBA regulations. or, Houston include someone else and the blend of all the other components(teams) comes out okay. (Oops I see you reposted something else on this,too.) Almu: You can’t leave well enough alone can you????? Do you poke caged animals with sticks too? LOL Gater (& Hottoddie): It’s a moot point gentlemen. Jackson is out of the circle. Well, today he is ... gawd only knows what will happen tomorrow. On Rice All indications are that his contract for trade will be accepted. This business of him (Rice) being the one requesting a thorough check of his medical status …. is so much spin and so obvious, it makes me wonder if this is the BBS of Clutchcity or the gullible lemmings from a few other boards I can name. Rice passed his preliminary in New York prior to CD signing into this deal. That entails a careful review of his condition, review of reports and in some cases (not in this case) a preliminary physical assessment by the receiving franchise (Rocket’s) team. Upon arrival in the city (Houston), a team of medical consultants reviewed the documentation and did a series of thorough physical exams. Questions arose from some of the consultants. It is not uncommon for this to happen. Rice was told they wanted to do more consultation on specifics. To be positive, have a general medical team consensus, if you will, before finalizing. He agreed. Conference postponed. Review is being discussed. It will in all likelihood be confirmed today (Wed) or tomorrow (Thursday). If it is quashed, it is because the medical consultants … who are all very well respected and are being contracted for their individual professional opinion …. could not reach an accord as to the prognosis. But the future of the injury and the relative debilitating effect it will have over the span of the contract.
