You are talking about Matt Bullard, right? He is very underrated, and I will miss him on the Rockets.
I don't know about the teaching speed and D part. You can teach position D, but a lot of D is innate quickness and instinct, which cannot be taught that much. Shooting, low post moves, gaining brute strength, and to some degree offensive court awareness, that is easier to teach. That is why Pippen--even though he knows where to be, now gets killed by Kobe. And when Kobe is Pippen's age, he will get schooled by younger versions. It is also why Hakeem is now 1/10 the defensive player he was in 93. There is no substitute for quickness, and there isn't a whole lot you can do get get more of it in the 1st place or keep it from fading. That said, I haven't see enough of TMo to compare his quickness to other SGs. He always seemed fluid like Robert Horry, but not seem "explosive". But being long, court aware, and having decent (versus explosive) athleticism could be enough to make a fine defensive player--that I agree.
Oeilpere, since you seem to have the Rockets' ear, have you heard anything about Portland and Jahidi White? Are CD and RT grumbling about Portland's interest? Is the original offer still good enough to snag him? I'd hate like hell for there to be a bidding war for him...
Outstanding post, Pops!! You are the master!! I wanted to ask you about Collier. I was under the impression that he was going to try to play in the summer leagues, but Rudy and CD didn't think his knee was ready or they wanted him to have more time to rest his knee. From what I gathered, Collier was disappointed and felt that he could have played but understood the decision. Was that correct? Do you know how close Collier is to being able to play at full speed? I feel that unless we can get White or McCoy then Jason Collier is going to play a big role as the backup to Cato. Do you have any insight on what Collier's role is to be on this team? Thanks.
I agree with a majority of your assessment, however, I'm not convinced of MoTaylor's consistency, rebounding, and hustle. We have doughnut hole in the middle, we need toughness, rebounding, and defense on a consistent basis. Check out the team chemistry the first 20 games, if the team is cohesive and helps on D the Rockets are in great shape. It took Hakeem and crew a couple of years to develop the chemistry to become successful. If we're above .500 at all-star break, we will make the playoffs (7th or 8th seed).
OiuelPere...you insufferable ex-patriated know it all! You smell distinclty of linseed oil! I hate you and all you stand for!!! Ok, now really, I don't...I'm just so tired of agreeing with everything you say, I just though I'd go another way...Except, I will argue with your description of Rice's " untapped " leadership,,,,We should get a whole team of untapped resources.....Vin Baker, as another "untapped leader..."...Bring bak Manute Bol for his "untapped" outside shot...At PG we'll have Greg Ostertag...now there's a guy with "untapped" ball handling skills...At the 2, we'll go with the aforemention Mr. Bol and his as yet to be untapped perimiter game...OK, SF...Here, I know...Mark Eaton...he can fly up and down the court once we untap his athletic ability/mid-game...Anyways, you get my point...I think if Rice's leadership has been untapped thus far, it's probably a sign tha the well is dry... oh, and OP...the Raprtors have a big man glut, including some interesting guys like Mamadou N"Dye...any thoughts in terms of the "filler" you mentioned?
Not to be a jerk, but please whittle down a quote you use in your post. When you use it, before hitting "submit reply," place your cursor in the quote and scoop out the redundant stuff and leave in the stuff you need. Unless it's a short quote to begin with. Sorry to mention it, but it'll look better not to see someone's long post twice. By the way, oeilpere, you are the wind beneath my wings.
Thanks ROXTXIA - I echo that sentiment. We've already read the long post, and my computer doesn't feel like loading it twice. (but, of course, you have to load it... would never miss an oeilpere thread! )
Yes!!! Run'n Gun, Run'n Gun, Run'n Gun... This is exactly what I've been saying. We will flat outscore everyone. The opposing team's defense is almost totally negated with 4 consistent scorers on the floor + Cato hanging around waiting for an open dunk. Who do they guard? Teams will be forced to play man to man, because if they double then they leave someone open. With this Rockets team you can't afford to leave anyone open! They can't double team any of our starters without leaving a proven scorer wide open. Let the opposing team have a field day on their offense. Our minimal D will stop some of it - we only need to stop a little to come out ahead. They will not be able to keep up! Run'n Gun, Run'n Gun, Run'n Gun!!!!!! (I'm so excited I'm tempted to start over with the name "Run'n Gun") (Thx OP!)
This is one of the better threads -- good post, Oeilpere. However, I was wondering about the center question from Page 1 -- what about other available centers? I think we need to leave White in Washington, but how do you feel about these centers -- Mihm in Cleveland, Brad Miller and Dalibor Bagarac in Chicago, and free agent Daniel Santiago from Phoenix?
Just an aside, but it's reported that Fegan is talking to the Cavs (concerning Mooch). Hmmm... (Moochie will stay, as will Mihm)
Rocketown: “…. What would happen to Rice(‘s) number 41 and EG's number? …” Have no idea. Usually the way this happens is the first guy in, gets his pick. But when one of the guys is a veteran, the “junior” guy usually lets him have it. In this case, they will probably talk, have a brew or two then kick the s**t out of one another until one says “uncle” or “your mutha”. LOL Actually, they will more than likely work out an equitable thing. Or switch about where neither takes it. My bet: Glen Rice asks Griffin to take it, and Glen offers to take another number. Griffin graciously says no and offers to take his favorite number from Junior High School where he lost his virginity in the back of his homeboy’s Monte Carlo to a 4 foot carhop from Sonic who thought he was Michael Jordan. Desert Scar: “ …You can teach position D, but a lot of D is innate quickness and instinct, which cannot be taught that much. Shooting, low post moves, gaining brute strength, and to some degree offensive court awareness, that is easier to teach. ….” You are missing the point. Yes you CAN teach position play and yes you CAN teach defensive placement, etc … . But, these things are NOT learned. They are NOT the priority to learn or demonstrate if you want to get into a good secondary college. Great spectacular offensive plays, and fat stats get you into good schools. Media attention, spin doctoring and ultimately a high pro draft position. To be sure there are defensive-minded players out there that get drafted, there are also schools or coaches that push the fundamentals of defense but by and large it is offense that gets you into the pro positions of power. Second point. Innate quickness and instinct always put someone miles ahead of their colleagues whether you are talking about basketball skills, tiddly-winks or corporate maneuvering. That goes without saying. But a solid history of teaching/learning where defense has been stressed and ingrained in your game is invaluable and immeasurable. Positioning on defense (Mario) will overcome speed (Jason Williams) most of the time. Admittedly we are talking about all things being equal here also. Mario is no longer the defensive stopper he once was, Jason is a lot quicker than Mario. But like your example of Pippen and Kobe, it is one of those “sideswiped” comparisons that people use to outwit the witless. LOL. Until Kobe learned his defensive role, his positioning to intercept, etc… Pippen, even at his ripe, slower than Senor Bryant, mangy old self could still out maneuver him. Now Kobe has learned a few things. Kobe beats you with speed on offense. But speed is Not what Kobe beats you with in defense. He beats you with body positioning, cutting off passing lanes, anticipation, etc …. . I won’t argue age versus speed. My argument is … well taught and demonstrated defensive positioning will win over foot speed … the majority of the time, all other things (age, height,etc..) being equal. VesceySux: “ … Portland …. Is the original offer still good enough to snag him? I'd hate like hell for there to be a bidding war for him...” Offer for Washington’s White to the Rockets for Walt is still alive last I heard. They are still dickering over some additions, with MJ wanting to add something to the deal. Again, this is the last I heard, and that is a week old. But talks are apparently in limbo waiting for some time determinants. I think it has to do with the BYC expiration timetable. Portland is a concern, but there will be no bidding war. CD will only pay so much for a spot. He has not got a lot of options or maneuverability out there now. BTW: Sorry to hear you are related to the Vecsey Family. Must be sad for you. You are on the Sux side I see. It could be worse. You could be on the Peter Is a d******d and He Really Sucks side of the family. Manny R: “ ….. Collier was disappointed and felt that he could have played but understood the decision. Was that correct? Do you know how close Collier is to being able to play at full speed? …” Yeah that’s right on. Collier was pulled because they were risking “uncontrolled full contact scrimmages” against “controlled weight stress” conditions. Jason remains an important cog in the center wheel spot. He felt some mild discomfort only when he stressed his legs and that was to be expected. Trainers and docs decided the gain of the summer games was not worth the risk. Make no mistake: Collier wanted to play. He is well rehabed now. Still has some mild discomfort last I heard, but if the season started today he would be dressed. He has been ahead of schedule all along. Jag: “…. ...you insufferable ex-patriated know it all! You smell distinclty of linseed oil! …” That is not linseed oil you miserable cretin, that is the laissez faire polish with which I have been buffed and primed since childhood. Better to slip off the yoke of insufferable criticism. Avast and begone from mine eyes, thou slothly bedragged beast. (And for God’s sake learn to dis someone with a little more pizzazz than that. LOL ) enbehay: “ …how do you feel about these centers -- Mihm in Cleveland, Brad Miller and Dalibor Bagarac in Chicago, and free agent Daniel Santiago from Phoenix? …” McCoy in Seattle, cheap, available(FA), probably short-med contract (2-3), serviceable abilities and fills a hole nicely. Mihm in Cleveland, cheap, maybe available, short contract, limited PT experience, redundant and therefore does not fill hole. Brad Miller, available cheap, short contract, better skills than Mihm, redundant but still fills center role nicely. Bagarac, cheap, short contract, limited experience, may fill hole, needs PT to improve to serviceable. Santiago, cheap, available, short contract, good all around skills, needs some training and guidance, may be nice pick up, good work ethic, but third string this year. McCoy is not the answer but he is serviceable and available. White is probably the guy in the CD’s immediate target sights. LaFrentz is now untouchable. But White lays us out for several years at a Cato-like contract. I am NOT comparing White and Cato. If White had Cato’s body we would be sailing to April and May. I am just a little leery of that contract and short typical East Coast body getting the feathers kicked out of him that’s all. I would take him(White) but he would not be my first choice. If I had my druthers though, and we were stuck without a third center, I would go after Miller. He is accessible. Chicago wants to unload him, and CD has had ongoing talks concerning him and other deals. I like Miller’s upside. I know he is somewhat redundant if we end up with a Cato,Collier,Miller line up, but the alternative …. Cato(Heavy contract), White(heavy Contract), Collier … is more worrisome. I like McCoy’s overall ups. I also like Santiago. But none of these guys are our center of the future. So we have to shop for serviceability (can they play a role, or play as second or even third string effectively), do they have a short contract ( definitely no more than 2-3 years), and do they have that all important ingredient .... future tradability (average to slightly above-average skills with a decent price tag).
Jag: ... er ... joking .... so was I partner ..... it has been awjhile that I turned some comment back with my pseudo-elizabethan prose .... Forgot this in the suffle: As far as Toronto goes .... they were kinda stuck in a rut with the Hakeem deal don't you think. I mean they wanted to do what is right,but they also wanted it to look like they were doing everything right (PR wise, "friendly.amiable team and aging but proud player part ways" ...). I think even if some one was available to trade, I have a sneaky suspicion Houston would not have done it. It would have been hard to fight the backlash of a headline like: " ... Hakeem traded to Toronto for younger Nigerian ..." or how about, " ... Hakeem traded to Toronto for second tier bench player ...". So two reasons come to mind. Actually three. 1. Toronto said no. Houston saw what Toronto had as far as big men went, decided they wanted someone and Toronto would not give it up. Remember once Hakeem had decided he was going to Toronto, Houston lost all control of the talks and merely had to renounce him and all was fine Toronto would sign him up. But to show good will, Houston signs and trades him and Hakeem then makes an extra million or so in the process. Hakeem agrees not to bad mouth the Rockets, etc .... Toronto, despite all their blushing and everything, would have been happy to sign him outright (cheaper, no concessions to an opponent), but could take him as a S&T to make everyone happy in the deal. Regardless of the method, Toronto did not have to placate any offers to trade one of their players in return, or bargain with CD about any player or concessions that CD was interested in. 2. There was nothing in Toronto that CD wanted. 3. They have an alternate plan. Houston has a plan that did not include any player that Toronto had under contract. White, McCoy, Miller, etc ..... . Personally I liked Mamadou (to keep), I liked Keon Clark(to trade) coupled with another of our players(the proverbial found pennies -Cato and Walt), I liked Skinner since he played in the West, actually he used to beat on us a bit, and had good legs and desire, I would have kept him somewhere on the roster but he was not a tradeable commodity for Toronto, who just goyt him a couple of weeks ago. In short, Toronto is probably out of the picture. I would lstill ook to Chicago (there is something still going on there I think), Washington (still something going on with the Wizard to Wizardville), New York (still, or again depending on how you look at it), Seattle( they are ready to self distruct, and some deal will be announced concerning trades and signings soon, which will give us an indication if Houston has been included) and Golden State (who are grossly over-rostered). As an afterthought ..... I know everyone will cringe at this suggestion, especially because of the injuries and the long contract ..... but E. Dampier is healthy, well-conditioned, and eager to play big minutes. I would not be surprised if Golden State either traded him or made him the man up front real early. H may be able to surtprise some people thius season. About time.
Yakeem: Yep. So says CD. Marc Jackson is in a quandry. He wants to be somewhere that he feels he can display his talents. He wants to be there for at least five years. He wants some dollars. Golden State is in a quandry. They have no room for anyone anymore. They can offer him the exception. they don't want to overpay him, according to the management, who were not very k9ind to him in the paper interviews. Houston can offer him some money. If they wanted him. But, if they really wanted him they could sign and trade. EXCEPT, Golden State according to the CBA anyway, cannot sign and trade Jackson using the exception. On top of all that ... Jackson's stock has fallen a bit. Money is drying up. And, I still say Houston will go with what they have now, or make one or two trades that have all ready been decided upon but are waiting for time to pass to meet contract expiration dates, BYC anniversary dates or, signing parameters to be reached.
Yo Pops!! Sorry to hear that Raef is a no-go now....I guess w/ Rice in the picture now, a banger-type center like Jahidi may be a better fit at this point anyways. Anything brewing w/ that possible trade for Eddy Curry by the way?? On a side note, you mentioned Seattle and trades......I don't see any way that Payton can or should remain on that team...I just hope he doesn't end of w/ KG - that combo would be lethal!! Another deal I wouldn't be surprised at: Dickerson and change for Penny...this would obviously make season ticket holders out of the local college fans for each respective city.
Thanks for the updates opie. I'll mention on Curry, that he's represented by the Rockets' new best friends, aka SFX, aka Falk/Tellem, aka the agents for MoTay, Griffin, and Rice. Still, I doubt Curry would even be remotely possible without Francis, Mobley, or Griffin involved. Falk you Mr. Fegan! I'd love to get Mihm for Moochie. He could make a really solid platoon with Cato at center. He has more defensive skills than Doleac, is quicker, and has more range on his shot. The Cavs could make it happen, as they have a trade exception in the 1 mill range too. Also, pops, Mihm's contract isn't short. He's in the 2nd year of his rookie contract, he has 3 or more years if you want him, at a very low price. "who were not very k9ind to him in the paper interviews. What do the Warriors want with K9 Thomas?
Pippen & Nike: The Curry thing that was mentioned came to me via an unsubstantiated source. Actually two seperate sources. I have had “some people” talk to “other people” about it and it remains unsubstantiated as far as I am concerned. Since this has gone on, Curry was signed and that effectively removes him from the equation for a while. To me the offer, if true, never had any real teeth, and likely no more than an exploratory type of thing. It also was more dated than some other things that have been going on since. Chicago and Houston are still talking about some things. Although the principals may still be Cato, with Miller ibeing the probable CD target. Mihm to me is not much of a move up from Jason Collier. If any move (UP) at all. Jason will bang/Chris will not. Jason has some defense and is learning/Chris may have more D but not that much more. Both have a decent shot. Mihm falls within that 2-3 “small contract” definition and thus I labeled him as small/cheap/etc.. . when comparing him with those other guys. I still think Jason will be the better player and more importantly a better fit for our present roster. I am more worried about losing Moochie frankly.
