Problems in our country that need to be dealt with?

Max, I think you are just understanding the teaching of Christ better as you age!
wnes beat me to the punch!

 

i don't think that's entirely untrue.

having said that...i would never cast doubt on the faith of someone because they voted Republican. even if you disagree...intentions can be entirely pure.

 

Then you control the government with your vote. Find a candidate that thinks the way you do or be that candidate. If he or you gets enough votes then he or you will speak your piece. Then if there are enough other representatives that think the way you or your candidate thinks then you can change the way the money is spent.

I don't like the way money is spent on social welfare. I like that the money is there I just don't think it is being spent right. I vote accordingly.

 

he is on some issues

 

Life and death: they are one, at core entwined. Who understands himself from his own strain presses himself into a drop of wine and throws himself into the purest flame.

Your essence was not born and will not die.

 

Fair enough except that that is calling for simple majority rule which the framers were against. The nature of our system is to maintain a balancing act between the will of the majority vs protecting the rights of the minority. The whole point of having a senate is that every state no matter how small still has equal standing in the senate with every other state so that populous states don't steamroll small states. That same logic applies to protecting the rights of the minority party so they don't get ideologically steamrolled. While this is always frustrating for the majority its a system that has served us well and largely protected us from the wild political swings or entrenched single party domination of parliamentary systems where the minority isn't protected.

I wholly agree that there are times when the fillibuster would go against legislation and nominations I support but in the long run its far better to have it since ones majority view today may very well be the minority tomorrow.

The fillibuster serves both sides and encourages compromise to prevent radical laws or nominations of any stripe from passing.

 

Interesting I find that I'm more conservative as I get older. About the only issue I've become more liberal on is homosexuality. When I was in my teens I used to viscerally despise it but now I have no problem with it. Part of what brought me around was meeting and getting to know gays and lesbians and realizing that there's nothing inherently threatening about what they do and as long as they don't try to make me gay the there's no problem.

 

Except for that whole abortion thing.

 

I feel government should take care of others because that's the most likely way for it to happen. You know, it would be great if no one stole anything, no one ripped anyone off, and everyone in the community made sure everyone else was better off. But it doesn't work that way. Unless we hire people to regulate our actions things inevitably go awry. Why? Because normal people don't have the energy or resolve to settle these manners on their own.

Take any example from history, e.g. the Chicago meat-packing scandal. It is not reasonable to expect people to monitor meat-packing sites, organize large scale boycotts, and somehow mobilize the market in order to regulate an industry. Maybe that's how a lot of Friedman-style capitalists would like to think it should go but a bunch of people watching a Dateline piece about an unsafe car or what-have-you is not an effective means to police products. We need government to step in and do that job. Just think about the Katrina disaster. Sure, a lot of us donated time, but how possible was that for all of us? Rather than all of us jumping in our trucks with water and supplies and rushing down to help, it was better to give money to the Red Cross, a governing-body that oversaw relief efforts. The same principle applies to government. There's a lot of bad stuff in this world. Companies dump crap in the water, Janja-weed militias gang rape women in Darfur, coal-fired power plants continue to kill tens of thousands every year. The best way to handle these problems is through governmental processes because only a government has the full-fledge capacity and authority to deal with them.

Look, I know where conservatives are coming from. You couldn't have been much more conservative than I was in high school. But the reason most 'liberals' believe that government ought to step in and do something is that they believe the material condition of peoples lives is more important than the tertiary freedoms of others. Property rights are great and fantastic, but when they get in the way of insuring basic necessities such as health care, they have to give way. What's more, 'liberals' for the most part are much more willing to believe that many people's plight is not just a result of them being lazy, but that social and economiic conditiosn are often the reason people are in the positiont that they are. And that overall, more done is good when some of the money and freedoms of the elites is given up to elevate the poorest to a slightly higher quality of life. That's my initial thought, I'll try to collect it more into what makes liberals and conservatives tick later as it's something I've thought a lot about.

 

I guess I can see how people think homosexuality is a sin, that's a belief. But some people think drinking is a sin, infidelity is a sin right, should we also deny them some basic rights like we like we deny homosexuals? Health care for their partners, visiting rights at the hospital, many legal things like tax stuff, pension benefits if their partner dies, how are people offended by this.

This is just the basic stuff they are after.

 

"If you are young and not a liberal, you have no heart. If you are old and not a conservative, you have no brain."
-Winston Churchill

I guess Churchill is in need of revision eh? I don't know what state of life you're in Max, but I think a lot of people become more liberal upon entering college and afterwards as they start to realize how the idea of "everyone being responsible for themselves" isn't as cut and dry as the Sean Hannity's of the world would make it seem.

 

I doubt he would crucify women for it.

 

are you suggesting max has no heart and no brain

(i sense a lawyer joke coming on... ).

 

Doesn't sound too liberal to me...

Revelations 19: 11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. 12His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter."[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.


I have trouble seeing liberals and conservatives standing around when this happens and saying " boy, this looks good, Jesus is coming to campaign for our cause"

The best view of Jesus comes with our knees bowed down to Him and our hearts submitted to His will.

 

Jesus was beyond a liberal for his time, he was a revolutionary! Calling out the powers that be at the temple! that was huge! and got him killed.

 

amen!! i do too!!!

 

Please keep in mind that Winston Churchill used to drink nearly a fifth of brandy a day....

 

Biblical Quotes Supporting the Belief that Jesus Is A Liberal

Peacemaking, not War Making: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children
of God. [Matthew 5:9] Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to
him the other also. [Matthew 5:39] I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you,
do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despite-fully use you, and persecute you;
[Matthew 5:44]

The Death Penalty: Thou shalt not kill [Matthew 5:21]

Crime and Punishment: If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to cast a stone at her.
[John 8:7] Do not judge, lest you too be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be
judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. [Matthew 7:1 & 2.]

Justice: Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
[Matthew 5:6] Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy [Matthew 5:7] But if ye forgive
not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. [Matthew 6:15]

Corporate Greed and the Religion of Wealth: In the temple courts [Jesus] found men selling cattle,
sheep and doves and other sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords,
and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money
changers and overturned their tables. [John 2:14 & 15.] Watch out! Be on your guard against all
kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions. [Luke 12.15.]
Truly, I say unto you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. [Matthew 19:23]
You cannot serve both God and Money. [Matthew 6:24.]

Paying Taxes & Separation of Church & State: Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are
Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's. [Matthew 22:21]

Community: Love your neighbor as yourself. .[Matthew 22:39] So in everything, do to others as
you would have them do to you.[Matthew 7:12.] If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess
and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. [Matthew 19:21]

Equality & Social Programs: But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the
blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the
resurrection of the just. [Luke 14:13 &14.]

Public Prayer & Displays of Faith: And when thou pray, thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: for
they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be
seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou pray, enter into
thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret… [Matthew 6:6
& 7]

Strict Enforcement of Religious Laws: If any of you has a son or a sheep and it falls into a pit on
the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? [Matthew 12:11] The Sabbath was made for
man, and not man for the Sabbath. [Mark 2:27.]

Individuality & Personal Spiritual Experience: Ye are the light of the world. [Matthew 5:14]

 

You say that like it's a bad thing.....

 

I'm going to look into getting me one of those KING OF KINGS LORD OF LORD robes.

It would be seriously badass at meetings.