President Obama's Extended Health Care Chat on ABC

Honestly glynch, get real.

Since he is a pastor, the tax question matters for him, just as it does for a lot of Americans during these hard economic times. Unless he is a pastor at a large church, he likely lives off of contributions from the parishioners and pays self-employment tax.

As a bankruptcy attorney, I see everyday the number of people that are working hard and every dollar matters. If they have to pay a significant tax increase, it will become a hardship on their budget. Be glad that you apparently do not fall into that category.

The health care plan that Obama is trying to pass is extremely expensive. If it passes into law, Obama's pledge to not raise taxes on 95% of Americans will end up being a load of crap. Pardon me while I have a heart attack from the surprise.

 

That's not what happened, you are lacking context.

Pardon me while I have a heart attack from the surprise.

 

Obama said, on multiple occasions during the debates, that 95% of Americans (those making less than $250,000 a year) would not have their taxes increase.

That is a pretty unambiguous comment. But you are going to try to take away from it by babbling something about context. I really should have a cardiologist on call.

 

....because he was specifically and unambiguously referring to his economic plan each and every one of those times, genius.


From his website:

Most of this has already been implemented - with the exception of a large part of the tax "increase" - as it was based on the expiration of the reckless Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in 2010.

I know that you're not a big enough internet man to admit when you make an e-mistake, but in this case it's pretty obvious.

 

Yeah...if you are willing to not consider the tax increases for the health care plan as "taxes" for the purposes of the general economic plan.

Look at it in terms of a wallet. Will 95% of Americans have no more dollars go out of their wallet to the government than it did before? Not if you include paying for the health care plan.

You go ahead and look at each government proposal in a vacuum. The rest of us will realize that you simply cannot compartmentalize in this fashion.

 

You have a real problem with admitting you are wrong when you make a snap judgment and type something out of context or make a bad assumption. Specifically, I recall your mistaken assumption that Syria's secular government was sympathetic to Al Qaeda - which you refused to acknowledge).

It's not really that hard, refman, it isn't. I've been wrong on the internet before, I will be again. I'll admit it when it happens. I think I boldy predicted Bush would lose the 2004 election. Wrong. I thought Mike James would be awesome in his second stint for the Rockets. Wrong......etc.

The problem is of course that I exist for the sole purpose of ferreting out wrongness on the internet. The discovery of wrongness is like cocaine for me. I enjoy destroying wrongness on the internet. It is my purpose. That is why we clash.

Anyway, let's play this out - which "health care plan taxes" are you specifically referring too - do you have any hard data on these and their costs? Can you point me to a summary of the relevant congressional bill sections. Therefore we can assess the wrongitude of your 95% promise-breaking thesis (which does not apply to this).

 

Sure I do. When I represented debtors (about 6 years), very few of them came to my office for med bills. Most of them were secured debts (house or car) or due to out of control credit cards (exacerbated by rampant fees and default interest rates).

What I saw a lot with my Chapter 13 clients was that they were barely making it. When the ARM adjusted by 1% (roughly $100 per month in most cases), most of my clients would be in a panic, wondering how they would make it. Generally, it was a razor's edge balancing act and a lot of financial counseling.

When I think about increasing the taxes to pay for a health plan, one concern that I have is for these guys that are barely hanging onto their house. If they have a difficult time making ends meet due to a $100 monthly increase in the mortgage payment, what will happen to them when they have that and an increase in their taxes?

 

We do not yet know which proposal will pass. We do know that there are Congressional Democrats that are reluctant to pass what is presently before them due to the cost. It is reasonable to assume that taxes will have to increase to pay for it.

If the health care plan passes, and 95% of Americans do not have to pay an extra dime for it, I will admit that I was wrong with glee in my heart. All you'll have to do is ask. Hell, even start a new thread for it.

I will be very happy should that come to fruition. Rationally, I just cannot see how it would be possible.

 

The health care plan is expected to cost $100B per year. Comparatively, the Bush tax cuts were $200B per year. If, as we've all been told a zillion times, the wealthiest 5% pay something like 50% of the taxes, then letting the tax cuts expire on that 5% may just pay for it...

But of course that also doesn't account for all the savings people will get if the plan actually gets costs under control (a big IF). If they are paying $50 more in taxes, but saving $50 a year because their insurance didn't go up as fast, are they any worse off?

 

We don't know what type of bureau will have to be created to administer the plan. We do not know how expansive it will be. We don't know what procedures will not be covered at all.

There is a ton of things that we do not know. glynch states that the plan will cost $1 trillion. You state $100 billion.

We will all know once the dust clears.

 

No - the $1 trillion figure is over 10 years (Bush tax cut was $2 trillion over 10 years). It's the same thing. All the estimates range around $100B / year.

But I agree - there's still a lot we don't know in terms of the details.