Where did you come from?? Excellent post. A lot of people don't realize that about Krauthammer. Post more!
w/ a couple of exceptions, you could have been describing me. must be why i like him, and he disdains the Obambi.
he's also a regular contributer to fox news, so perhaps this is a bit of self-pwnage, unless you meant to confirm that fox is indeed fair and balanced.
One correspondent who may have socially liberal views and suddenly Fox is fiar and balanced? By that logic, MSNBC is the most conservative network out there, I just have to find that one pundit.
Here’s an opportunity to put the explaining on many levels part into practice. Have you heard people, including governments and military people, talk about the importance of the battle for hearts and minds? This happens on many levels as well, but for a start let’s take the example of addressing legitimate grievances, and let’s take the simplest example of an apology for a legitimate wrong. If neighbour A seriously wrongs neighbour B then in many cases neighbour B is going to feel an urge to strike back at neighbour A. But if neighbour A acknowledges what he’s done and sincerely apologizes, then most of the time neighbour B will be satisfied and move on with his life no longer feeling the urge to strike back at neighbour A. As another example let’s say that neighbour B is a family, a big family, of 10. If neighbour A does a serious wrong to them then maybe 8 are going to feel an urge to strike back, and 2 will be able to immediately forgive him and move on with their lives. One of those 8 may be a real extremist who tries to organize a retaliation against neighbour A. Two or three of the others may be susceptible to being talked into joining him as activists, and the others may be sympathetic enough to look the other way and not try to stop them. At this point the extremist leader has the support he needs to launch a significant attack back. Let’s say that at this point neighbour A acknowledges what he’s done (provided that he actually did it and understands what he’s done) and makes a sincere apology. This isn’t likely to be good enough for the extremist leader, but it will have an impact on the people who are more moderate. Maybe one or two of the ones who wanted to join the extremist will now only be sympathetic but don’t want to get involved, because they’re not that angry any more. Of the rest who were prepared to look the other way, maybe two or three will now be against any kind of retaliation and will be willing to report the extremists if they learn that he’s going to try something. This is the power of honesty, integrity, and facing up to one’s responsibilities. We all know it in our everyday lives, but it applies to nations and peoples as well. Note that the extremist leader’s position is just as extreme in both cases, but in the second case he no longer has enough support he needs from the moderates to launch a major retaliation. In our specific case Obama, as the leader of the US, had the honesty and integrity to face up to a couple of key, significant, legitimate, grievances in that speech, and he has made the world a safer place because of it. Keep in mind very clearly, however, that those extremist leaders are still out there, and they need to be dealt with in a different way, but though honestly and integrity Obama made major headway in the battle for the hearts and minds of the moderates with that speech, and the world took one big step forward as a result. Also note that that speech worked many levels, and facing up to one’s past actions and responsibilities was only one part and probably not the biggest part, although it is a foundational part. The promise of coming together to build a better future for both sides is at least an equally powerful step forward as well.
I appreciate the explanation, and that was hard to read (ADD here, it was long). But here's my deal, I understand everything you said, agree with some of it. Here's the problem. There's nothing wrong with apologizing, especially when you've done something wrong (I still want to know what we did wrong, though, I want somebody to go in depth about it and not just bring up stuff from the 70's, etc., and I also want somebody to bring up what these countries have done wrong to us and other countries, my point, the US makes mistakes, we have in the past, no doubt, it's history, it's in the books, but don't act like no other country has either). The problem, for me, lies in the "moderates" you bring up. There are going to be extremists, that happens everywhere, but you talk about "moderates", and the point is what do they do about what the "extremists" do. I think Obama there possibly getting through to young people is huge and that could help, but the bottom line is, it's complicated, and I just can't believe that a single speech is going to sway enough "moderates" to make a lasting change. Maybe years of speeches, maybe some action behind them, maybe some stuff in the future, not just one speech, I'm sorry. It's a good start, but that's it. People oversees (maybe the Muslim population, in general) have a skewed view of us here in the United States, just as some would argue that we have some people here that have an odd view of the world (becuase of our media, etc.), and unless you fundamentally change how they see us, how we're reported, how we're shown, and their leaders, long-term change, I don't think, is going to happen. I've still got to go listen to the whole speech, all 45mins or so worth, I've gotten part of the way through.
Nobody sane believes one speech by itself will effect great change, but it's a speech that had to be made. There has to be a starting point, a foundation to build on. People (not accusing you) like to complain about speeches being words, but words are an important start. To people who disdain Obama's speech because it's only rhetoric, please be consistent and never quote Lincoln, FDR, Churchill, JFK, Reagan, etc for the rest of your life. Thanks.
Yeah, I get that, my original argument was with: from an earlier post by Grizzled, because I don't think one speech can do that. It has to be followed up with something, IMO, and I think it may be a step towards making the world a safer place, or it may all be naive, I'm not sure, time will tell.
I don't think it is just one speech. He's already stopped the U.S. sanction of torture. He's already put into place plans to close gitmo. He's already put the plan to draw down in Iraq into action. There have been positive steps by Obama, and this speech only helps to back up the kinds of things that already have action. Now the plans to help finance Women's advancement that he spoke about, he'll need to follow through with. But it certainly goes beyond just speaking of grand ideas in a general sense. It outlines a clear plan of action.
Obama did just that, if you recall. He mentioned the overthrow of the democratically elected in Iran in the mid 50s, and he referred to actions Iran has taken against the US. Here are a few more specifics. After they overthrew the democratically elected government the US supported a repressive puppet dictatorship in Iran until it was overthrown by a revolution in 1978. Since then the US was allied with Saddam Hussein in the 80s at a time when Iraq-Iran war was going on. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran#Recent_history_.281921.E2.80.93present.29 On Iran’s part, they held Americans hostage in their embassy in Teheran for over a year in the late 70, and they’ve been actively undermining the US in Iraq. I don’t recall the specifics off hand, but I believe they’ve also been involved in some of the attacks against American targets in the ME in the last few decades. This is what I was referring to in my example above. If the moderates think the US is just as bad as their own extremists they may well turn a blind eye and do nothing. If they have some reason to trust the US and to believe that the US wants to treat them fairly and work with them, otoh, then they will see their own extremists as a problem that could interfere with their good relations with the US, and in that case they will be much more inclined to turn them in. I believe I said in an earlier post that this was the first bold step in a journey of a thousand steps. This was the trumpet call, the symbolic turning point, the speech in Egypt given directly to the people of the ME and Muslims around the world, but this kind of change will take time and be a process that will have its victories and setbacks. Nonetheless, the world was a safer place the day after the speech than the day before it. The speech brought hope to many, and it restored a lot of respect the US had lost under Bush, and it started the work of changing the hearts and minds of the moderates.
Grizzled, you're from Canada, right? It makes me even more proud of my country and our president when I see and hear folks from other countries express the optimism and recognition that the election of Obama appears to be a positive watershed moment in our history. Especially after the beating our prestige and leadership in the world community took during the dark days of the prior administration. It's a shame that some of my own countrymen seem to wish Obama failure. Thanks.
I agree! that was one hell of a speech. I don't think we could have picked a better communicator to represent the us as our president.
That may be a good reason for me to speak up then. You many not be used to hearing this kind of feedback from non-Americans. The Obama administration is genuinely leading the way for progressive minded people here in Canada and all over the world right now.
I agree, the Dutch are becoming slightly more conservative I'm very happy the Us is moving in the right direction with Obama. Of course a speech cannot change everything. But the way he treats other countries with respects and shows it in his Speeches, is really a move in the right direction. If you have problems with another country there are only two ways to solve them (without Ignoring them), you either fight (and destroy that country/government), or you talk and try to find a solution. Obama seems a bit more like the second type.
and don't think the Israeli's didn't notice: <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3uKrt2yy3OU&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3uKrt2yy3OU&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Good. The Israelis needed to notice. They need to stop the crap they've been doing regarding settlements and start living up to their end of the bargain. Just like the Palestinians.
