Hmmm...subjective, no? I might think that chocolate ice cream sucks, and you may agree with me, but as Sullivan said, what do we two matter in the face of so many?
Subjective? Yes. I might think that LOTR movies are poorly made, and the Tolkien family might agree with me. But as Sullivan said, what do we two matter in the face of so many? Well in this case, if they do own the rights, the Tolkien estate seems to matter. Correct?
Are they on record as saying they're against Jackson's film versions? I hadn't heard. And I thought someone just said that they had already sold the rights.
I think I remember hearing differing reactions to the films from them. In any case, you were telling me that subjective opinions from individuals don't matter against the overwhelming opinion of the majority. I was just stating that this is not always the case.
Incorrect. You were stating that the reason they would object to Jackson making a version of the Hobbit was, and I quote "Probably the lack of quality." as though the latter were a fact. I wasn't saying that subjective opinions have no effect, i was saying that your assumption that yours was the relevent one here was flawed, and an assumption.
Yeah LoTR was such a cheap movie....wait. Yeah but the acting did suck....wait. Yeah but the script was awful....wait. Yeah we all love your movie reviews.....wait. The Hobbit was always my favorite one of the series, and the most reread, but that could be because I read that one first and when I was really young. I think I was in the second grade at the time and reading at at least an 8th grade level.
My assumption was not that my opinion was the relevant one, it was that the estate shared my opinion. You were saying that subjective opinion have no relevance, when you said this: "Hmmm...subjective, no? I might think that chocolate ice cream sucks, and you may agree with me, but as Sullivan said, what do we two matter in the face of so many?" i.e. - Subjective opinions don't matter when against the overwhelming majority. right?
Was it cheap? Hell no. Did the acting suck? In most cases, yes. Was the script awful? You bet. Do you all love my movie reviews? Nope. But I think at least some of you find them useful.
No, the distinction I was making was between subjective, as in yours, and not to be assumed applied to others, including the Tolkeins, and an objective one, where it could be argued that said assumption could be defended.
Make up your mind. Are you saying that my subjective opinion is flawed or that my assumption that the Tolkiens share my subjective opinion is flawed. Just relax MacB. LOTR r00lz! Did you see the ultra-cool eliphants and wingy thingies? They roolzed!!! LOLOL. ttyl
Nomar: You remind me a lot of a movie reviewer I used to read. I knew that if he hated the movie, I would probably love it and if he loved it, I was sure to hate it. While I didn't agree, at least I knew what to expect.
Jeff - Don't focus on the negative though. You didn't like any of the movies I liked this year? 21 Grams, Big Fish, Last Samurai, Mystic River, Northfork, Matchstick Men, etc.?
Your subjective opinion is just that; subjective, and an opinion. As such, it would be impossible for me to call it flawed. What I was suggesting was flawed was your treatment of same as an objective fact, so much that you assumed it was transposed to others as self-evident. I don't think I have been inconsistent with this. I respect the zeal with which you seem to approach this subject, and entered into the discussion partly in a playfull spirit.
Some people hate big movies just because of the hype. I think that's what's going on here. Understandable. Most big movies that get that much press suck. LotR was a great trilogy and it didn't even butcher the books so I'm happy. The fact that you pulled out the "LOTR r00lz! Did you see the ultra-cool eliphants and wingy thingies? They roolzed!!! LOLOL. ttyl" proves that you hate it from an anti-trendy standpoint. I hate those people too but there were plenty of intelligent people who appreciated it for its substance. Anyone in the theatre who clapped every time Legolas would do something athletic would fit under the idiot category. You just dont clap at movies! I can't stress this enough. Go to the REAL theatre you uncultured swines, THEN you can clap all you want.
Hey Nomar - just a question for you - do you wish that the Lord of the Rings movies had never been made? I can certainly understand that while reading the books you developed your image of how Middle Earth should be - and if PJ's version differed too much, that could ruin the movies for you. Luckily for me, his Middle Earth matched up with mine well and I was glad to have it brought to life.
Well the original statement I made was sort of in a joking manner anyway. I don't actually think that my opinion of the movie is self-evident to others. HayJon- I don't hate big movies because of the hype. Gladiator, Braveheart, etc. Those are big movies with tons of hype. I liked them just fine. And I'm not really anti-trendy either. I just find it frustrating to see a movie, which to me is clearly not a good movie, talked about in such high esteem. I would be fine with it if people just said "wow, thats my favorite movie ever, it's so fun." But when people say "LOTR is the best movie of all time. Casablanca is **** compared to it, and so is Godfather. LOLOL." Gutter - I wish a decent director had replaced Hackson. The movie didnt have to match up with what I envisioned, just as long as it was good.
When has anyone ever said Casablanca and Godfather is **** compared to LOTR. LOTR is an awesome movie, but so are the others. I think it's very hard to compare movies from completely different genres, and yes, even eras. Who else do you think could have directed a LOTR film? Name names.
A couple of snippets from the Citizen Kane board over at IMDB. "Anyone who thinks this is the best movie ever is just being stupid. Either that or they haven't seen the two LOTR movies. Peter Jackson is the greatest filmmaker the world has ever seen and FOTR and TTT have done more to advance the art of filmmaking that Citizen Kane ever did. And if you disagree then just look at the Top 250. LOTR will be number 1 very soon." "Are you honestly saying that Orsen Welles is even close to the genius of Peter Jackson. Jackson is the best director ever. " Then from the LOTR boards... "LOTR is the most Epic and Moving picture ever commited to film in MY opinion. A film so full of hope and so timelessly made is a breath of fresh air to me in these cynical times - Theres never been anything quite like it and I doubt there will be again. " "Each and every character, including Gollum, goes through some sort of inner personal struggle, trying to fight for what they believe is right. It is very personal and extremely original. No other movies in cinematic history can even compare to these where originality is concerned. You ARE missing something if you can't even see that. " The stuff just gets me very frustrated. Other directors? 1) Ridley Scott 2) Steven Spielberg 3) Cristophe Gans 4) David Fincher 5) David Lynch
What the ****. LOTR was a pretty good movie as whole, but individual acting and character developement is on par with a movie like X2. Kane is one of the greatest movies ever made (from what I heard the RTF majors says ). But my view on LOTR was all me.
