I agree with Deckard here, but I will admit my own bigotry. I despise racists. You, MFW, are a hate-filled racist. Despicable.
I don't support racisim in any form or context. I don't believe most Chinese do. THEY DON'T. But your comparison are so off. Germans don't put those war criminals in a SHRINE. End of Discussion.
The difference between Germany and Japan: Germany has already apologized many times for their crime, and the government has done all they could do to stay away from Nazi. Japan never apologizes for their crime, and their "Nazi"-minded politicians are still in power. There's a lot of hate toward Japan in China, Korea and the whole Southeast Asia. Japan's behaviors alienate them from their neighbors and cause sustained hate. Germany's warcrimes were also less horrific than Japan's. China lost almost 10% of its population. Japan slaughtered 300K during the Nanjing Massacre in all kinds of cruel ways (like a two-soidier competition of killing, one of them won by killing about 110 with his thord). But what has the Japanese government did in the last 60 years? They never apologize for that, and many claims they killed at most 100K. Imagine if another country did that to US. Chinese's feelings toward Japan are more hate than racism. Thinking about it. A large proportion of Japanese are descendants of early immigrants from Chinese mainland, and Japan had absorbed a good amount Chinese culture. That was one sad side about the Chinese culture. Many emperors or power people killed a lot of their own people.
It is indeed messy business, but to say that Tibet "opted" to join China during the Tang - especially since, you know, the Tibetans also "opted" to invade & occupy the northern silk road & large parts of present day China during that same time period, is a bit of an exaggeration. The fact that the Chinese have to go back to a highly massaged version of history from the 7th & 8th century to justify the invasion & occupation of Tibet 1300 years later speaks volumes. Granted, in the grand scheme of things it makes no difference as there will never ever be a free Tibet, and right now the struggle is just to hold on to the Tibetan way of life and to not be marginalized in their own region, but it shouldn't be forgotten.
Oh, BTW, while MFW needs to choose better language, Foul language toward a specific group within certian ethnicity doesn't consititute racism. If one berates toward Terrorists in Arab countries, doesn't mean he is a racist. That's overreaching.
I should not try to rationalize it but it is a fact many Chinese (young and old) still hate the Japanese and Japan. Remember the actions of German government since WWII is like night and day from the ations of the Japanese government (putting war criminals in shrines, change history text book, blah blah). I believe racism is really too light a word to describe how many Chinese feels. It may not be right or rational at this point, but that is the way it is today.
Maybe the discussion's over for you... Who decided they belonged in a shrine? All of the people? Have you seen any polls to suggest that 100% of the Japanese support this shrine? Back to the Jewish analogy, who protected and hid German's guilty of genocide and other war crimes ... some Germans or all? Was common Germans hiding criminals better or worse than some high-ranking Japanese politicians/Emperor setting up a shrine? And the Vatican helped some of the most guilty German criminals to escape to South America ... is that better or worse? Invariably, there will be differences between the situations. Now folks like MFW could realize that the people today are not guilty of their ancestors' crimes (and realize that not all of their ancestors are even guilty in the first place) ... or he can 'hate' entire peoples and perpetuate human conflict into eternity. Do you think we should discuss the strengths and weaknesses of our analogies, or should you expened some energy to try and help MFW get over his issue?
That is most unfortunate. So the way it sounds, many Chinese hold the grandchildren of Japanese WWII veterans responsible for the atrocities that they committed in WWII, and possibly even believe that today's Japanese are just as bereft of human values and morals as their grandfathers.
Are you serious? "Jap bastards" is racist, and there's no way around it. The Japanese people aren't "the same ethnicity" as Chinese, any more than Irish are the same ethnicity as Germans or French. If he wants to attack the people on their politics or the history, he can do so without using slurs.
WOW. Tell me any German Head of State, ANY, can survive a month politically if he publicly supports Nazi, or put Hitler in a Shrine for the public to admire. Then we'll discuss. Otherwise, I won't spend energy any further. I will say it again, your analogy is way off.
Quite frankly it doesn't matter what you think of it, nor anybody else for that matter. At the end of the day, all it matters is what the Chinese think of it, and how the law interprets it. I see how you conveniently glossed over the legal terms present in international law. Last time I checked, no international law recognize Kuwait as part of Iraq. When you come in somebody else's backyard with a knife, don't expect them to do anything other than blow your head off with a gun.
Oh you are right of course. Why wouldn't the Chinese allow those living in their country to screw them. I wonder what the average American would think knowing their neighbours openly supports the Al Qaeda.
Why edit out my comments? I've said he can use better language. To me, his "basterds" was toward those specific group of people. No the whole Japanese people. But maybe my understanding of English language is lacking here. In that case, apologies.
Reading comprehension Deckard, show where I said the Japs can't live in China. But those that says the Japs shouldn't apologize to China can get the f*ck out for all I care.
I agree with Deckard here, but I will admit my own bigotry. I despise racists. You, MFW, are a hate-filled racist. Despicable. [/B][/QUOTE] Spare me Cohen. You couldn' even determine whether I hatred was towards the Japs, or just those semi Japs that says Japan shouldn't apologize. I love how some of you conveniently glossed over that point. Or do you think like them...
Yes, there is that word again, massaged. Everything out of China is massaged, anywhere from economics to history. And I thought massage was only used to imply something physical. I certainly love how the very credible western historians claim how the Xia and Shang dynasties never existed because earlier Chinese history was too mythical in the beginning of the 20th century (some still do actually), yet fall deafeningly silent when the middle Shang capital of Anyang was dug out of the ground. With regarding Tibet, I can at least claim that there was one tablet which claimed "and the two countrys become one" that still stands today. Like I said, if you have an alternative version of history. Prove it.
Please Cohen, show me an example where the Chinese people tried to claim atrocities committed by their ancestors are anything but. They certainly have done their share of it in the past. But show me an example, here today, circa 2005.
You are, inexplicably, entitled to your opinion. No analogy will be perfect, but until you can show me where the Japanese people of today all love and support a shrine that glorifies the atrocities committed against the Chinese people 50 years ago, I will not hold them accountable for 'supporting' such actions. And nothing discussed can brand them guilty of such actions. Whether it's a shrine, or hiding the criminals or helping them escape ... different but the same ... you can find reasons not to let past wrongs stay in their era. To continue to blame. I wonder what would happen if the Japanese closed the shrine, apologized, and changed their textbooks.
