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PRC Territorial Expansion

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rocketsjudoka, Feb 10, 2016.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    This is a spinoff from another thread to not clutter and completely derail the main topic of that thread and also because this is a topic that has been discussed on D&D before and will again.

    In response to a post from Deckard.
    http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=10299829&postcount=149

    The Japanese built a lighthouse on the Senkakus / Diaoyutai islands in 1996 and have recently built another lighthouse and a wharf. Those actions have antagonized both the PRC and Taiwan which jointly claim the islands under the original ROC. The Japanese are also beefing up military installations on the Miyako Islands near the Senkakus.

    Yes South Korea has a long running dispute over the Liancourt Rocks / Takeshima Islands. These are currently held by SK but Japan has long claimed them. There is also a dispute regarding Tsushima Island which is held by Japan. These islands have been flare ups for nationalism among both countries, as the Senkaku / Diaoyutia dispute is between the PRC and Japan. Further though Korea was occupied and outrightly annexed by Japan for much of the 20th C. The legacy of that still rankles many Koreans. Bias and bigotry towards Koreans has been prevalent in Japanese society and that has led to further distrust further between the two peoples.

    As for what you know about the region I can't say but as someone who speaks and reads Chinese and some Japanese, with business and family ties to China, martial arts ties to Japan and Korea and traveled extensively in the region I can assure you have both firsthand and literary knowledge of issues. So when I say that Koreans might be more distrustful of the Japanese that comes from both direct and indirect experience.

    Yes India is fearful of the PRC but they were and continue to be more fearful of Pakistan. Just consider how much fear and angst the Mumbai attacks caused in India versus recent skirmishes with the PRC. In Indian consciousness Pakistan and Pakistani based militants is the far larger threat.

    Djibouti is saying the PRC plans on building a base there but the PRC hasn't confirmed that it is. Anyway the US already has a base in Djibouti so even if the PRC built an installation there it's not like they would be able to colonize the country.
     
  2. SamFisher

    SamFisher Virtuous

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    PRC shoudl worry about its collapsing internally due to environmental/economic catastrophe before expanding to other areas and collapsing there.

    Commodities aren't exactly killing it these days.
     
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  3. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    I fully agree. That was one of the reasons in the other thread I pointed out it is highly unlikely the PRC would actually build Moon bases anytime soon.
     
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  4. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    expanding to some rocks? Those "expansions" and claim of territories are very much symbolic in nature because the actual islands are so tiny
     
  5. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    Not exactly. The Diaoyutai and the Spratleys sit on valuable fishing grounds and other resources. The PRC also brought up a strategic argument that the Diaoyutai's create a potential exclusion zone that could cut off their access to the Pacific ocean. The Spratleys also control several shipping lanes and there are oil and gas fields.
     
  6. adoo

    adoo Member

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    In response to a post from Deckard---regarding the So China Sea territorial dispute---in the "Bannon is Out" thead

    http://bbs.clutchfans.net/index.php?threads/bannon-is-out.284784/page-2

    This is similar to the DaiYuTai Islands dispute between Japan and Taiwan

    prior to 1950s, other than Taiwanese fishermen fishing on the DaiYuTai Islands, no country had claim sovereignty over these islands.

    some time in the late 1960s, when oil reserves were discovered around the island, the most powerful country around there claim sovereignty over the islands. Japanese military kick the Taiwanese fishermen off the island, then built military installations there.

    Taiwan is a US ally; the US has been inactive insofar as helping its claim to the DaiYuTai islands.

    Based on what i have read, Taiwan has the most legitimate claim to these island. I suggest you read about
    • 1951 San Francisco Peace Treaty and
    • 1952 Japan-ROC Peace Treaty

    The same story is being played out in the South China Sea
    Prior to WW2, no one country had claim sovereignty to these island, altho fishermen from all neighboring countries (Viet Nam, Flips, Malaysia, China) fish there. When oil / other reserves were discovered around these islands, the most powerful country around there, the PRC, is following the precedence set by the Japanese, as it relates to the Diaoyutai islands.
    just my guess; US ally, Flips, will follow the same fate as US ally Taiwan on the the Diaoyutai islands


    Based on what i've read, Viet Nam has the strongest claim to these islands.​

    btw, the Phillipines is not a strong US ally; bluntly put, the US does not trust the flips,

    as evidenced by the fact that the US had opted to close its Naval base in Subic Bay​
     
  7. adoo

    adoo Member

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    In response to a post from Deckard---regarding the China / Bhutan territorial dispute---in the "Bannon is Out" thead

    http://bbs.clutchfans.net/index.php?threads/bannon-is-out.284784/page-2

    little nuance is in order.

    Both the PRC and India gained independence ~ 1949; some 7 decades later, to say that the PRC has enjoyed more success would be under-stating it. India's national psyche has been bruised---BIG TIME---by China's many achievements over the past 3+decades

    India's #1 nemesis has been Pakistan; she was miffed when China invited Pakistan to join its ambitious 21 st Century Silk Road project.
    India had also declined China's offer to join the project. As a work around, China has built the Silk Road constructions around India, India feels encircled by the Chinese construction project. This so-called China-India dispute amounts to----effectively---India giving China the finger

    Under the 1890 Convention Between Great Britain and China Relating to Sikkim and Tibet, the Doklam Plateau had been defined as part of Tibet. [​IMG].
     
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  8. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Actually, the US didn't opt to close it's Naval Base at Subic Bay and Clark Air Base. Subic Bay was at one time the largest US naval base west of Pearl Harbor. The bases were a huge contributor to the Philippine economy amounting to hundreds of millions a year, as well as a very large annual payment to lease the facilities. They were asked to leave by the end of 1992 by the government of President Corazon Aquino, so we left, of course. Aquino wanted to extend the lease for another ten years, but the Senate wouldn't go along with the idea. It doesn't change the fact that we are treaty allies and the US has a good relationship with the Secretary of Defense and the military, despite a rocky relationship with the current Philippine president.

    In the long run, the Philippines, in my opinion, would have been far better off retaining the US bases. Had they still been in place, China's aggression in the South China Sea, particularly with regard to those areas belonging to the Philippines, like Scarborough Shoal, would have never occurred. In my opinion. By the way, I've heard of flipping burgers, and flipping out, but not calling citizens of the Philippines "Flips." It doesn't sound complimentary, but what do I know.
     
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  9. adoo

    adoo Member

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    this beckons the question,

    why would the Flips, supposedly our ally, ask us to leave ?
     
  10. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    "Flip" is considered a slur when applied to the people of the Philippines. Apparently you aren't worth my time. Goodbye.
     
  11. adoo

    adoo Member

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    flip as in flippant;

    flippant remarks by leaders (from the Marcos, Aquino to Duerte) of this corrupt country have garnered much global attention, such as it has been, forever pretending (when interacting w other Asian countries) to be the 51st state of the USA

    the rise of strong US allies in Asia, , japan, taiwan, S Korea, Singapore, has only exacerbated this problem
    the relationship has been rocky from Marcos on,

    coinciding w the rise strong US allies (Japan, Taiwan, S Korea, Singapore) in Asia​

    monkey see, monkey do. the counter argument has been that

    the PRC is following the precedence set by a strong US ally, Japan, in the taking of Taiwan's DaiYuTai islands​

    not according to the UN's Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf (CLCS)
     
    #11 adoo, Aug 19, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017
  12. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member

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    India sees Pakistan as a dangerous threat - an enemy. India sees China as a hungry frenemy. A trade partner but a country that has eyes on Indian territory as it claims large parts of Indian territory as it's own. India saw what China did to Tibet and believes China is slowly taking Indian land. This is why India is reacting fiercely this time. They think of they don't China will continue is encroachment
     
  13. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member

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    You forget that China keeps moving Dwyer into Indian territory

     
  14. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Flip as in "flippant?" With all due respect, is that the best excuse you can come up with for using a slur several times aimed at the people of the Philippines? Pardon me for saying this, but you are a lousy liar. Try peddling that garbage to someone else. You aren't close to selling it here.
     
  15. adoo

    adoo Member

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    India has fabricated the convenient lie that the DokLam plateau is Indian territory.

    you do know about the 1890 Convention Between Great Britain and China Relating to Sikkim and Tibet,

    which had defined that the Doklam Plateau as part of Tibet,​

    no?
    [​IMG]


    your claim is not supported by facts.

    facts are:

    PRC had embarked on a 21th century Silk Road Project, that'd expedite commerce between Asia and the EU, as well as Africa, inviting many countries to participate. India had declined the invitation to join, but Pakistan did. So did US allies such as Japan, S Korea, Taiwan, Singapore.

    Because India did not participate, PRC had build constructions around India, including 2 in Pakistan. India feels encircled.
    the DokLam area is part of Tibet; it has nothing to do w India. but it is in close proximity to where the China/India War was fought in 1962, which was also in Tibet territory, not Indian
    from this, one can infer that this so-called dispute is but a fabricated lie propagated by India to get back at China.

    i believe that ur referring to the time when the CCP was in the process of overthrowing the KMT government in China.

    what the CCP did was terrible/dispicable---the end justifying the means---killing many Chinese citizens who did not support their cause, thru out China,
    including the Tibet province
     
    #15 adoo, Aug 19, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017
  16. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member

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    That agreement is not valid as India was not a party to it. The king of England didn't have authority to give Indian territory to China. China users whatever loophole and logic to claim territory. It's a dangerous expansionist nation. Taking Tibet taking Indian territory., it wants Taiwan, it is taking land from Japan, the Philippines and many other countries.




     
  17. adoo

    adoo Member

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    you do know that India was a British colony at the time of this agreement, no?

    one of the conditions for Britain granting independence to India in 1949 was for India to honor that agreement.

    think first.

    The 1997 Hong Kong handover directly contradicts your convenient claim. the 99-yr lease on HK to the UK was signed by the PRC's predecessor two time remove. The PRC opted to honor that lease.



    btw,
    Tibet and Taiwan are Chinese provinces, like Alaska / Calif / NM / Texas / Hawaii / Ok / ND / SD are US states​
     
    #17 adoo, Aug 19, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017
  18. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    Does China consider ethnic Chinese - even those not born in China or claiming Chinese citizenship - as Chinese citizens?
     
  19. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    "Taiwan is a province of China"

    Cmon brah
     
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  20. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    I've read a lot of this thread. I want to say that Russia and China seem to have enough land area. Seriously
     

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