Here are some stats to ponder over: Player----------eFG%-Jump eFG%--Passing--Reb--Block--'Hands'--O-PER--D-PER--Net PER--On Crt--Off Crt--Net Crt---Overall Donyell Marshall---57.0%--54.5%----3.0----26.2---4.1----18.1----21.1----18.0----3.1------1.0-----(3.5)-----4.5------3.8 SAR--------------51.4%--41.5%----3.2----21.5---2.0----9.5-----21.4----18.9----2.5------5.3-----(2.8)-----(2.5)-----0.0 Stromile Swift-----45.0%--28.2%----0.5----22.7---10.0----5.7----17.6----18.8---(1.1)-----1.0------2.9-----(1.9)-----(1.5) Reggie Evans------47.8%--20.0%----1.2----42.0----1.0----3.8----14.3----16.7----(2.4)----0.7------3.7----(3.1)-----(2.8) Antoine Walker----47.5%--41.7%----5.3----25.2----4.7----12.1----16.3----19.0----(2.7)----0.5-----0.9-----(0.4)-----(1.6) Juwan Howard-----45.0%--42.3%----2.8----22.6----0.6----9.8----13.9----16.9----(3.0)-----1.2-----6.0----(4.9)-----(4.0) Kwame Brown------46.0%--32.8%----1.3----23.1----2.1----4.8----11.2----14.4----(3.2)----(6.6)----1.5----(8.2)-----(5.7) These are stats from 82games.com. eFG% takes into account 3 PTers extra point. Jump eFG% is the eFG% for jumpers only. Passing, reb, block, hands are per 48 minute ratings. O-PER is the players overall Offensive rating - average is 15.0 D-PER is the players overall Defensive rating - average is 15.0 Net PER is the difference between the two PER ratings On Court is the +/- of the teams points while the player is On the court Off Court is the +/- of the teams points while the player is Off the court Net Court is the difference between the On/Off court rating Overall is the average of the Net PER & Net On/Off Court For comparison purposes other Overall ratings: T-Mac---------7.3 Yao------------3.2 Mike James-----9.3 Jason Kidd------9.5 A Daniels-------5.9 Deke-----------5.9 B Simmons------4.2 C Mobely-------(2.2) Wesley---------(2.4) Jon Barry--------6.0 Bob Sura-------(0.7) Damon Jones----3.2 Shane Battier----7.7 Steven Hunter---(5.7)
I don't know where this myth started about Swift being a bad defender. Stromile Swift was the Grizzlies best defender last season. A little blurb I found on a Memphis Grizzlies message board: The type of a coach a team has makes a huge impact on what type of players are successful under him. Van Gundy has proven time and time again, great defensive players always play well under him. With offensive minded players, it's a different story. Taylor played horribly under Van Gundy. Steve Francis played horribly under Van Gundy. Both players are very similar to Walker and SAR.
Of the 4 mentioned, SAR is the only sure thing. I don't think there's any dispute upon what he would give us. There is probably zero risk associated in signing SAR - with his pedigree, good character, and young age, he will be very tradeable throughout the life of the contract at only $5mill/per. He's going to be a dependable 3rd scorer and he's not going to cause problems. I wouldn't be against the acquisition of SAR, as he would improve our team. My problem with getting him is that I feel that our biggest need from a power forward is athleticism and shotblocking. He doesn't address this at all, and unlike Walker, doesn't make up for it through some other appealing aspect. I would be pleased if we landed him, but he's not my first choice. Donyell Marshall is a lazy sloth and will be an albatross by the end of his contract. Where did the idea generate that he is a good defender? He's a sloth. I will be extremely disappointed if they hand out a multiyear deal to a slow footed, tweener 32 year old who camps out at the 3 point line. Swift can go either way, and if he panned out would be exactly what we need from his position. I don't think he'll bust because we've seen what he was capable of during that stretch when Gasol was injured. I think JVG could do for him what he did for Camby and Cato. The only way I think Stro we would regret signing Stro is if his health became an issue. Antoine Walker is FAR and away the biggest risk-reward. He's the only one of the four who could potentially disrupt chemistry and cause lockerroom problems - that's a far bigger problem than mismanaging your salary cap. At the same time, he's the only guy who could vault us into a completely different level (unless Swift maxed out his potential) with his unique array of offensive abilities.
Why does this name keep coming up? Are there people here who honestly think one VG brother would make an offer to another brothers' Restricted FA? Unless Stan calls Jeff and says..."Hey, we don't have a use for Udonis any longer...why don't you make him an offer?"....I just don't see this happening.
It came from watching him play. He's a good shotblocker and an adequate man-to-man defender on the perimeter against face-up 4s. He's no where near Cato's class guarding the post. Taylor played very well the during first year under JVG, as a contrast off the bench to Cato. The problem was, he and Howard were redundant, and Taylor never, ever showed an ability to consistently rebound. Walker and SAR both have. Yao Ming's an offensive minded player. He's played well under JVG. Tracy McGrady's an offensive minded player. He played well under JVG. Jon Barry, David Wesley, and Bob Sura are offensive minded players. They played well under JVG. Cuttino Mobley was an offensive minded player who improved his (already underrated) defense and played well under JVG. Adrian Griffin was a defensive minded player. He played poorly under JVG. We need an offensive minded player. We need someone who can be a consistent third option behind Yao and T-Mac. My choice is SAR because he's the most skilled, scoring PF available to us.
Those players are all completely different types of players than Taylor, Francis, Walker and SAR. They are all capable of getting their offense within the flow. You don't need to run an ISO for them (Taylor and SAR). They don't need to dominate the ball to be effective on offense (Walker and Francis).
I never thought I'd see myself write this but i'd rather have Walker than any of the forwards metioned. Other than Abdul-Rahim. We need scoring on this team when Yao goes out of the game. Walker is a reliable number 2 scorer. He can rebound and he can pass.
Yep, I concur but have been saying something similiar but in a more obscure way that goes largely unnoticed or dismissed. Whatever. Cooler heads, creative thinking, and unencumbered intelligence will always prevail. Now we'll wait and see.
Not that you can gleam that much from it, but Walker defended Jermaine Oneal pretty well in the playoffs. Oneal's first round averages are pretty much across the board worse then his entire playoff stats. And he forced him into a horrible FG%, though Jermaine shot bad throughout. In either case, Jermaine was kept under double digits twice and Walker at the least played a very solid PF to a standstill.
Please don't compare Mo Taylor to SAR or Antoine Walker. Rahim and Walker have proven themselves to be legit NBA players who command starters minutes and have flirted with All-star games. Taylor hasn't and will never sniff an NBA all star game and has never been highly regarded in this league. And as far as a guy like SAR being on losing teams, someone please answer this question.......Who is the best teammate SAR has ever had? Think about his days in Vancouver, Atlanta, and Portland and please name the best player he's ever played with? It's an honest question. I would love to get a 3rd scoring option in the backcourt, however, i don't see that happening this offseason. Simmons isn't a prototypical shooting guard, and I quesiion Mobley and his interest coming here or the Rockets' interest in him.
I take it that you don't remember O'Neal injuring his shoulder before the playoffs started and basically came back at about 70%? Walker is an adequate defender as much as Juwan is. Plain and simple. Why are ready and willing to pay Walker MLE (if he can even be had for that cheap) when our backcourt was one of the worst -if not THE-backcourts among the playoff teams?
Quote:"Donyell Marshall is a lazy sloth " Where did you get that idea? How many games did you watch? I watched about 180-200 games that Donneyl Marshall played. In contrast to what people say in this forum, he is good one on one defender and never has been a liability. He can get score in two ways, long bomb and put backs. He may lose a step or two these days but he was viewed as very atheletic. He used to play at 3 a lot. He is very good weak side blocker and good offensive rebounder. His shooting was not so consistent in the old days and he became a better shooter as he grew older. I watched him when he played for GS, UT, AND TOR.
Yeah...JO was not nearly at 100%, but still... As for question two, PF AND backcourt are both areas of need. In regards to the backcourt, if we lose a player, we can still contend for playoffs... If we lose Juwan Howard, then we are screwed for the entire season. In other words, our backcourt players are average, but at least we have a lot of them. Our 1 PF is average, but there is only 1 of them.
None. All of the so-called available ones have flaws in their game and are too expensive for this team. Plus, and this is the key, they do not address the competative disadvantage the Rockets face with other teams in the West. I feel that that is something that will take years to address if it's ever addressed at all. They (Rox) have been picking up guys and shuffling through players for years now and still find themselves with major holes to fill. That's because the guys at the top making the mistakes are still around making mistakes. The first step toward getting better is to stop making the same mistakes over and over again. For what they need, there is no quick fix - they will need to address the PF problem by going out and actually finding someone who can play the position, not by picking up a FA who's available because his current team did not want him. They need to find diamonds in the rough like Dallas did with Marquis Daniels - players who can grow and develop with Yao & T-Mac. For example, last year there was a kid out of Miami named Darius Rice who went undrafted. 6'10" played PF. He had a nice inside game, could hit the 3 and was a JVG kind of player: very smart and coachable. He's now in the NBDL at Ft. Myers: http://www.nba.com/nbdl/players/darius_rice.html At this point, I feel it's better to make no move at all than to go out again and get yet another guy (Mo Taylor) who they will need to move once it's clearly seen that he's not the answer. As Mark Cuban is fond of saying, sometimes the best move you can make is to make no move at all.
I just think that we need a serviceable, good enough PF to back up Juwan...if he is indeed healthy from his heart condition. Because honestly, the PFs out there are 1. out of our spending limits 2. don't fit into the long term scheme of things 3. 1 and 2 combined. And then spend the money on upgrading our backcourt. Even bringing in just Antonio Daniels or Mobley would do wonders.
It seems to me most people here are thinking Walker is a good fit at MLE, maybe ever so slightly more. That is fair value for his game, and would make either him or Juwan and adequate backup. One would have to assume, that despite his recovered knee and his recovered heart condition, management is pretty worried about Juwan's health. A player like Stephen Hunter would be a good backup, but if Juwan did go down, not a starter. Walker or Juwan, on the other hand could put up the 30+ mpg needed. In all reality, the Rockets need all 3: (1) A above average PF (2) Another backcourt player - either more of a pure PG or a taller pure SG. (3) Another 5-15 mpg type backup frontcourt player.
The kind of PF I think we all want would take Yao or Tmac do get them. Or 8-10 mil in cap space we won't have. Also, consider this: We didn't draft, or even majorly evaluate, some PFs with promise who we had a shot at (Simein, Taft, Turiaf), in a very deep draft for PFs. We are likely not going to get a pick as low as 24 in the years ahead, and with the age limits the drafts are probably weaker for a couple of years. If we were planning to draft one, it would have been this year. The idea any undrafted FA out there can come and do better than the guys we have discussed is maybe 1%. The market is much worse for FA PFs next year. There will be no chance to get a player like 4 unrestricted free agents we are primarily talking at the MLE or around the MLE. Below is next years group, Amare and Nene are also RFAs but there is zero chance they could be had for an MLE. The unresticted who is a fit is Harrington, and he will have lots of suiters for more than the MLE if he plays well at all. All the rest are either less solid players than what we have no or we have to overpay what their current teams feel they are worth. So in summary our best chance at least take care of the 4 spot the next 3+ years is now. I think we know this, and all actions point to using the MLE or S&T to this. Our clear targets would be the unrestricted FAs SS, AW, SAR, and DM. Outright signings or S&T for not too much cost are viable, because their current teams do not have much leverage. Probably a secondary strategy would be going after some restricted ones, in particular outbidding Seattle (possibly Radm, but Evans is a lot more likely) or maybe a S&T with a future #1 for Haslem if the Heat would rather go with Simein (again, a draftee we bypassed in the draft not less) and get something back for Haslem.
I'm going to sort of address your post Hillboy, but I gotta tell you, it just doesn't make sense. We need to stop making mistakes... So... You're saying that, in order to avoid making the wrong moves, the team should make no moves at all...? You're saying that we shouldn't try to win with proven, established players... But rather, we should look for "diamonds in the rough"... As in, NBDL scrubs. Why? So that we look smarter than everybody else if it somehow works out? We have our cornerstones, Yao and T-Mac. What we now need to do is piece together championship-caliber role players to fit around them. Sure, we could try to bring in a bunch of NBDL players and hope that they pan out and we find a diamond in the rough. But it would definitely be a lot easier (and smarter) just to acquire proven players through trade and free agency. Your argument reminds me of what a lot of Yankee fans say. They talk about how the team needs to stop signing big name players via free agency, and look to the farm system for help. They point to Pettitte, Jeter, Rivera, and Bernie as the cornerstones of the dynasty. But what they forget is that without adding Tino, O'Neill, Brosius, Cone, Wells, and El Duque (heck, even Knoblauch) via trade and free agency, there never would have been a Yankee dynasty from 96-00. We can't just stand pat. The West is too good. And we definitely can't try to start over from square one with Yao and T-Mac. That would just be a tremendous waste of time and money. We need to make moves, and for me, that starts with upgrading the PF position.
Instead of looking at only the FA available, CD should be looking at backups around the league. I've always liked what Wilcox can do, from a backup's perspective. He recently got arrested for carring a gun without a license, not a real big deal. And he's not getting along well with Dunluvy either. This might be a great time to inquire about his availability. We all know Brand isn't going anywhere, so he might like coming here and backing up Juwan until he can take over the starting position, most likely in a season or two. I think he'd be a better fit than any of the FA because he doesn't need alot of touches. Most of the FA are gonna want to establish themselves as offensive players when they get on a new team, have something to prove. Wilcox won't . He doesn't have that type of offensive game. He usually operates within 5 feet from the basket, mostly putbacks and dunks. We mainly need someone to backup Juwan, play good defense, rebound, and block shots. We don't need that "3rd option" type player, just a backup who doesn't give away too much on defense. Spoon, Padgett, and Bowen aren't cutting it. I'd be happy with Wilcox, Hunter, or Kwame. Seems like all are available to some degree.
