I would be grateful if some of you would answer the following question and give your reasons. "Of the forwards discussed in this thread, ____________ is the most likely to become another Mo Taylor." You may compare any aspects you choose, although at the moment I'm thinking of soft defense, absent rebounding, excessive shooting, a bloated, unmovable contract, and "remind me why we thought we were lucky to get this guy?"
I'd have to say Donyell simply because of age. I am worries JH in 2 years will be deadwood too. I like the fact DM's would be 4 years max because of the over 36 rule, that limits total risk with him. Also, it is a risk with all of them, sure, but I'd take any of the 5 in the stats above. Lots of things went wrong with MoT (injuries, personal issues, huge--much bigger than an MLE--promised contract, coaching clashes), most of which just could not be anticipated. Cato, Mooch, Anderson, those contracts were a lot harder to understand because they had never had the performance MoT did before his contract. Finally, the MLE puts a nice cap/negotiating starting point on SAR, AW or SS, and flat out cap on DM or RE (don't even consider a S&T). I think we could only get really burned if we did a S&T for a lot more than the MLE (start at 7-8-9 mil) and say gave up 2 draft picks (NY 2nd and future 1st). But given these guys are unresticted, control their destiny, and there are multiple alternatives, no player or team should be able to hold us over the fire on this. We are in a much stronger position than where we were with MoT or Cato.
IMO, Stromile Swift without a doubt. The only thing he has proven to be is a shot-blocker, which is our biggest need with Yao & Deke . He is not a great defender, is a fair to middling rebounder, has no offensive game other than dunking and is a very soft player. If we sign him he will be Motay all over again. The main reason many want him seems to be his "potential" because he is athletic and hasn't done anything significant in 2 collegiate years and 5 NBA years. If someone is still an unknown commodity after 5 seasons, there isn't much more to know. $9MM/yr for 5 yrs for a career mediocre backup? Say hello to Motay #2, our new "Flower Forward."
Then I would have to say Donyell Marshall and Stromile Swiftl. I can't compare Mo Taylor to Antoine Walker or SAR. Taylor never sniffed an NBA all-star game. I don't believe Marshall has been to an all star game and I can assure you Stromile Swift will never got to one as well. Walker and SAR have proven themselves to be starting caliber players while averaging around 18 and 8 thorugout their careers. They are just superior and more talented basketball players. Marshall and Swift do not have the overall basketball ability to command starters' minutes.
Although completely offtopic, I have to strongly disagree with your assesment of Francis. Completely to the contrary, he DID adjust for the team and he DID adjust to play the role he was asked by completely sacrificing his game. His problem was that while he tried, he simply was unable to be what we were asking him to be. He is simply incapable of taking care of the ball or initiating an offense - he's just not a pg. Once you took away his carte blanche to do as he pleased, he became completely worthless to us, so much to the point that some nights it seemed like we won not in due part to any contributions he made but IN SPITE of him.
I'll post this on this thread to save myself from starting up "redundant" threads and what not. That was some pretty good analysis btw, Jeff. And I KNOW I'm running a high risk of having some of what I say coming back to haunt me in the next Clutchfans.net's memorable moments/quotes. Okay here goes: WHY IS EVERYONE JONESIN FOR ANTOINE WALKER?? It absolutely boggles the mind. I have never seen such admiration for a player that clearly does not fit into what we need at the PF spot. Sure CD may have contacted Walker and his agents, but that doesn't mean that we should pencil his name onto the roster just yet. And keep in mind, I'm not trying to deconstruct what you said, Jeff. Your thoughts on his strengths are pretty much in agreement with everyone else that's pro-walker: Supposed strengths: Solid rebounder This I will partly agree on. He does put up pretty good rebounding numbers in his career but so does/did Juwan Howard. "But Howard never avg'd double digit rebounding in a season like Walker has" Yes, Walker has but when was the last time he did that? And I am pretty sure if you did a per 48 min calculation for rebounding, both Walker and Howard would be about the same. So what am I getting at? That, although he could be considered to be a solid rebounder, he's not the type of rebounder we need at the 4. Too often I see Yao under the basket by himself (either by his own choice or because he's to slow to move otherwise) trying to get the rebound. Howard did a decent job underneath with Yao but that wasn't enough. And the Antoine Walker I am familiar with,as with most people I'm sure, is not the one that's a rebounding machine. Terrific passer He can pass better then most PFs but that doesn't mean he's a TERRIFIC passer. His assist/TO ratio has always been about 1:1. "So? All other PFs have about a 1:1 assist/TO ratio as well" Okay, you want Walker's 4 apg you better take his almost-4 TOs a game as well. Of course his passing is going to be superior when being compared to Padgett, Spoon, Bowen, etc. but how much MORE does he give versus Juwan? I can easily see a crisp bounce pass to a Yao posting up from Walker but if the guy is going to lose the ball 5 minutes later causing a TO, what kind of strength is it? well-developed offensive game...He can score in bunches I can't argue with this one. What Walker does well is score. He's a perimeter "threat" only because he can drain about 3 out of 10 shots from the 3 point arc. He can score inside and I think I even remember some post play from him in a couple of games. But why do we need our 3rd option to be at the 4 spot? If we get Walker and he becomes our 3rd option, that makes our front court with TMac and Yao, the pillars of our offense. Sure it might sound very sexy having our frontcourt putting up a combined 60 points a night, but can't we distribute the scoring more evenly? Like with our backcourt? We're basically asking Walker not only to be the man that defends and rebounds next to Yao, but we're gonna also ask him to score on the other end either by shooting from outside (where he's of no use in getting offensive rebounds) or taking it inside (where it basically turns Yao into a rebounder/put-back'er). Not a high percentage shooter from long range, but hits big shots. Still young at 28. What concerns me is that he's a volume shooter that took 18 shots last year. "But he'll have to recognize he's not the 1st or 2nd option anymore and will just take the lumps JVG gives him". Please. If Mike James is waving off McGrady, what makes you think Walker won't hoist up shot after shot just because he made one in a row (not a typo)? And I'm not even going to delve into his FT%. Bottom line: Antoine Walker is not the PF that I think we need. (there's the nominee for "most memorable moments/quotes"). We need an under-the-basket rebounder (which he isn't), a more than avg defender (which he's never been), and a player that shoots the high % shots (which most of the time he doesn't). "so who's YOUR answer to our PF suckiness?" Honestly, the only two players that I see that can be a long term answer is either Swift or Chandler. And I'm liking Swift less and less and Chandler is basically untouchable. So why am I thinking long term? Because I don't want to see the Rockets signing Walker to some 4-5 year contract only to get nowhere while we could have made a run at a younger PF or big man or use the money to strengthen our very weak, very old, and very defensively-challenged backcourt.
If you can sign Antoine Walker for 3-5 years at the MLE you absolutely MUST do that. I'm of the opinion that there isn't any way in hell that could be a possibility though. Why would a young player with his stats and pedigree be willing to sign for the MLE while someone like Stromile Swift reportedly wants 9 million bucks a year? If Stromile Swift signs anywhere for 9 million bucks and Antoine Walker settle for the MLE than Antoine Walker is either very motivated or very foolish. Also, the team that does sign Swift better expect a slightly better skilled version of Kelvin Cato because that's just about all he is in my opinion. Walker is ten times the basketball player Stromile Swift could ever hope to become. I'll say it again, if you can get Walker for the MLE it's an absolutel no brainer. Make it happen right this instant and forget everybody else because that would be way too good to be true!
Point taken. Even if you are correct, AW still differs from SF because he has court vision, is a good passer and can grab offensive rebounds. He can be effective without ball-hogging. Granted, SF tried to adjust but his heart wasn't in it. If you look at his playoff performance against the Lakers in '04, you see what could have happened much earlier in the year, at least by mid-season. In the playoffs, he buckled down, focused, and gave the team a command performance. Had SF done that during the latter part of the season he may still be a Rocket. I'm convinced he will one day drop the "this is what I am" veneer, and his TOs, ball-hogging and ill-advised shots will decrease. SF is just plain stubborn! (I do realize he is not a pure PG).
Don't expect to see Walker in a Rocket's uniform. For the same money, he can be the # 2 man in Boston , continue in his old ways more or less, and not have a pit bull of a coach shredding his behind every night. In Houston as a Rocket, he'd fall into well, the abyss since so many others go before him. His ego, unlike his body and game vision, can't take the bruising and innuendo resulting in a cloud of befuddlement. I still feel we're missing something here just like the surprise on draft day when Luther Head popped a lot of eyes and minds when the pick was announced. My gut still tells me SAR will slip in here someway, somehow. And a parade of pomp and circumstance will serve as a smoke screen as one leaves, another takes his place as the available PFs are wined and dined, speculated over, crossed off, counted out, and flown home to pack for their new money team. A lot of excellent observations and data have been presented very professionally with insight and candor over the last few days. One could learn a lot by reading them. Can you say doing the research and homework? Whatever happens it's not glaringly obvious. At least not now. Keep up the great work guys until CD and JVG give us a whole new set of parallelograms to coordinate and decipher.
I agree with McDowell. If you can get that kind of talent for the MLE you have to do it. Sure he's no where remotely close to being an ideal fit, but he's a capable and proven player in this league. If the team doesn't click with him on board ... trade him. That kind of talent for the MLE .. he can easily be moved. But if he does work out, we're talking about an unstoppable front court between tmac-walker-yao. In my opinion its a low risk, high reward move. In answering Will's question, definitely Stromile Swift. The guy's career is defined by unfufilled expectations. He's lazy and I personally don't think he'll ever reach his potential. His athletic ability is hard to ignore though.
I would bet that he won't come here for a smaller contract without a trade kicker. He's not going to let himself get in position where he is shipped off to Siberia.
Tied. Marshall because of age and length of contract and Stro because we need the open mid-range jumper to be money in this offense. What's unnerving is that sounds like I'm describing MoT in what I want - he actually got the ball to Yao fairly well IMHO, but his D was non-existant and he took dumb shots. But I know the answer you're looking for: Walker. Maybe, but if he comes here he comes here cheaper than MoT's and Cato's contracts in todays NBA that's a steal. It's ironic, but I think if MoT or KT had been on the floor the Mav's would have been toast in the playoffs and this whole bbs (including myself) wouldn't be 'reaching' as much as we are. Our defense was not a problem until the last month of the season and then our offense and defense crashed and burned in the games we lost to the Mav's. I'm convinced thats why we're so split on who we want, or who is the next MoT. But we simply won't know until the next guy gets here.
Yeah that's true jopatmc. I'm not fully supportive of any of these potential PF candidates. While Walker is a capable player and would be an absolute bargain at the MLE. It's a high probability that the experiment will fail, and a trade might not be able to rectify what has been done. You would be sacrificing the fluidity and chemistry of the team by bringing Walker on board. It goes without saying that there are question marks with every choice and that no matter what direction the Rockets go the board will be divided. It's a tough choice. In my mind it wouldnt be the end of the world if we went into the season without a major PF acquisition. So I raise the question: What would the general opinion be if we began the season with the status quo at the PF position? .. (JHo, Padgett, Spoon, Baker) and hypothetically assuming CD spends the MLE on Simmons (moving tmac back to the 2). Would all hell break loose? Would everyone be asking for CD's head? It's my opinion that this years FA PF market has no definitive answers. I wouldn't want us strapped with a bad contract by taking a risk on a Stromile Swift in the primes of tmac + yao. I wouldn't mind seeing CD going with Juwan Howard (we act like he was horrible) this year and trying the market next year.
I can look at every critique of every player and the only player that makes sense is SAR. Just think that if you give SAR the same 12 shots Wesley gets, then you get 16ppg and 8 rebs. Just think of the times when ming was either in foul trouble or tired and the offense sputtered. Fast forward and let Ming rest and put Tracy and SAR in those same high pnr and what would the result be. I need Rox fans to think back to when SAR was with Vancuver and we had no one who could cover him at all. Cato,Taylor,Williams no one could cover the guy. I want people to picture when the rox can trot out SAR,Howard and Ming against the Spurs and force Bowen or manu to check SAR in the post. I also want people to envision playing Detroit and having Prince guarding SAR instead of T-Mac because now he's in at the 3. I think SAR just gives this team so many options and I really think its between Houston and NJ. The rockets should call Portland and offer enough contracts to get him to about 7m for 4 yr and even then he'll be 32 and still a very good player. It only makes sense to me.
from Bassfly: I love CD and have supported him through very thin times, but there's no way we can go into the season without another 4 - even if it's Badiane. And that might have me calling for CD's head. I'm so glad JHo's healthy now, but by basketball standards his heart condition is going to be iffy until he proves otherwise. A 'small' heart attack for an athlete in the NBA who is a multi-millonaire is no mere thing. Real-life sanity suggests he goes home and takes care of his family if anything re-occurs. And JHo definitely strikes me with a guy whose head is not up his **s. Going into next season without an upgrade at the 4 leaves us as a second-tier team at best.
PPG 16.8 RPG 7.3 BPG 0.5 Height: 6-9 Weight: 245 lbs. Pos: F Age: 28 Born: December 11, 1976, Marietta, GA Drafted: 1996, 1st round, 3rd pick by Grizzlies College: California RosterS Abdur-RahimD AndersonR FrahmJ JackV KhryapaD MilesT OutlawR PattersonJ PrzybillaT RatliffH Seung-JinD StoudamireS TelfairM Webster Profile | Fantasy | Statistics | Game Log | Splits | Track this Player | News | Search: ESPN | Web 1996-1997 Regular Season1997-1998 Regular Season1998-1999 Regular Season1999-2000 Regular Season2000-2001 Regular Season2001-2002 Regular Season2002-2003 Regular Season2003-2004 Regular Season2004-2005 Regular Season 2004-2005 SEASON SPLITS | PER GAME | TOTAL | PER 48 MINUTES REBOUNDS SPLIT G MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS Total 54 34.6 6.2-12.4 .503 0.3-0.7 .385 4.1-4.7 .866 0.91 0.48 2.2 2.8 2.3 5.0 7.3 2.1 16.8 G MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS Home 30 34.5 6.3-12.5 .507 0.3-0.6 .526 4.2-4.7 .880 1.03 0.60 2.1 2.9 2.3 4.6 6.8 1.9 17.2 Road 24 34.7 6.1-12.3 .498 0.2-0.8 .250 4.0-4.7 .848 0.75 0.33 2.3 2.7 2.3 5.5 7.8 2.3 16.4 G MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS Pre All-Star 23 35.2 5.7-11.3 .508 0.3-0.7 .438 3.9-4.4 .881 1.22 0.61 2.4 2.8 2.8 5.2 8.0 1.3 15.7 Post All-Star 31 34.1 6.6-13.2 .500 0.3-0.7 .348 4.2-4.9 .856 0.68 0.39 2.0 2.8 1.9 4.8 6.7 2.6 17.7 By Month G MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS November 14 33.2 5.5-11.1 .494 0.3-0.6 .444 4.1-4.4 .934 1.00 0.50 2.0 2.6 2.5 5.0 7.5 0.9 15.4 December 7 37.6 5.6-11.3 .494 0.4-1.0 .429 3.4-4.0 .857 1.57 0.86 3.0 2.6 3.4 5.1 8.6 2.0 15.0 January 2 40.5 8.0-12.5 .640 0.0-0.0 .000 4.0-6.0 .667 1.50 0.50 3.0 4.5 3.0 6.5 9.5 1.0 20.0 February 3 23.7 3.7-8.3 .440 0.0-0.7 .000 4.3-5.7 .765 0.00 0.33 1.0 2.3 1.3 2.0 3.3 0.7 11.7 March 16 35.8 6.9-14.1 .487 0.3-0.6 .444 5.4-6.1 .888 0.69 0.50 2.1 2.8 1.9 5.0 6.9 2.6 19.4 April 12 34.5 7.0-13.3 .528 0.3-1.0 .333 2.6-3.2 .816 0.83 0.25 2.1 2.8 1.9 5.3 7.3 3.3 16.9 By Result G MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS In wins 17 34.5 6.5-12.5 .521 0.4-0.9 .467 4.4-4.8 .902 1.12 0.47 2.2 2.6 2.9 4.3 7.2 1.4 17.8 In losses 37 34.6 6.1-12.4 .495 0.2-0.6 .333 3.9-4.6 .849 0.81 0.49 2.2 2.8 2.0 5.3 7.3 2.4 16.4 G MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS vs. Div. 13 34.5 5.5-11.4 .486 0.3-0.9 .333 4.2-4.9 .859 1.00 0.77 1.7 2.2 1.5 3.7 5.2 2.7 15.6 vs. Conf. 38 35.2 6.5-12.6 .518 0.3-0.8 .313 4.2-4.8 .863 1.05 0.55 2.2 2.8 2.0 5.1 7.0 2.4 17.4 By Position How can you not like the guy? Look at his numbers in wins,losses,home,away,div, and conf. Every night, the same thing. No peaks and valleys and for some reson uknown, Ming doesn't play well on the rd.
from leebigez: I think that's the main point. I don't buy into the argument that SAR is redundnat with JHo, but if JHo needs to be traded to acquire him via a S&T I'm more than willing to do it. He's also the only FA 4 guy that I would be happy about Les paying luxury tax to obtain.
I can't say that I'm sure Walker is the answer to any of the Rockets problems . . . But, if you want to say using SAR at the 3 would be beneficial, I'm quite sure Walker could also play the SF for stretches. As for how that would help us . . . I'm not so sure. If you think back to the series against Dallas, we weren't burned by our lack of a PF. In fact, our PF play was pretty good in keeping Dirk in check (and boy didn't he look like a complete a$$, calling out Dampier and yelling at Terry in the next round). The glaring problem against Dallas was that we got beat every time by Terry and Stackhouse. That's where we need to shore up our defense. Weak-side help on defense wouldn't be such a big deal if we had guards that could contain someone really fast (Terry) or really strong (Stack). And also, if Yao had decided to show up for a few more of those games, we would of never lost to Dallas. In fact, if Yao decides to show up for more than 2/3 of the games (especially when they really matter . . .), we wouldn't need any help to come in this off-season. That's what I really want this off-season. But that being said, I don't think getting Walker or SAR would be such a bad deal, as long as it was only for the MLE. And you know what, I actual kinda think Walker would of at least been able to slow down Stackhouse . . .
I think this team makes a huge mistake getting Walker. Its nothing personal, but look at what he does at home vs the rd. Its so obvious that he shoots more and worse on the rd than at home. The so called great passer avg 3 asst and 3 to's. The so called "stretcher" shoots 32% from 3pt land. I just don't see the benefit of walker.
