RM95, You have to take Powell's word for it, but he said Al-Qaeda is operating freely in Bagdad, from a financing and operational perspective. www.cnn.com has a video link edited down to just those comments. it's off the front page.
only this could sum up what I imagine of this guy. It's all I can do, with no TV or radio here: "Ladies and Gentlemen of the Security Council... the American's stunts and recordings confuse and frighten me..."
What was most interesting to me was the fact that Powell didn't just tie Saddam to terrorism...but he tied him to Al Queda.
Powell seems to not only mention some ties, but he is fingering an "associate" network to bin Laden's led by Abu Musab Zarqawi. Powell makes direct claims based on interviews with a detainee from the Jordan assassination. This detainee is credited with targeting many in the network that have led to the recent terrorist cell arrests throughout Europe. Powell considers this detainee to have impeccable info since it landed many arrests. here's the text of it. I highlight the points of "evidence" by highlighting the source in bold, and the "evidence" from that source is left for you to read. <blockquote><hr>Part 9: Ties to al Qaeda Our concern is not just about these elicit weapons. It's the way that these elicit weapons can be connected to terrorists and terrorist organizations that have no compunction about using such devices against innocent people around the world. Iraq and terrorism go back decades. Baghdad trains Palestine Liberation Front members in small arms and explosives. Saddam uses the Arab Liberation Front to funnel money to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers in order to prolong the intifada. And it's no secret that Saddam's own intelligence service was involved in dozens of attacks or attempted assassinations in the 1990s. But what I want to bring to your attention today is the potentially much more sinister nexus between Iraq and the al Qaeda terrorist network, a nexus that combines classic terrorist organizations and modern methods of murder. <b>Iraq today harbors a deadly terrorist network headed by Abu Musab Zarqawi, an associate and collaborator of Osama bin Laden and his al Qaeda lieutenants.</b> [<b>bio of Zarqawi</b>] Zarqawi, a Palestinian born in Jordan, fought in the Afghan war more than a decade ago. Returning to Afghanistan in 2000, he oversaw a terrorist training camp. One of his specialities and one of the specialties of this camp is poisons. When our coalition ousted the Taliban, the Zarqawi network helped establish another poison and explosive training center camp. And <b>this camp is located in northeastern Iraq.</b> <b>You see a picture of this camp. </b> The network is teaching its operatives how to produce ricin and other poisons. Let me remind you how ricin works. Less than a pinch -- image a pinch of salt -- less than a pinch of ricin, eating just this amount in your food, would cause shock followed by circulatory failure. Death comes within 72 hours and there is no antidote, there is no cure. It is fatal. Those helping to run this camp are Zarqawi lieutenants operating in northern Kurdish areas outside Saddam Hussein's controlled Iraq. <b>[this part is on the cnn.com video]</b> But Baghdad has an agent in the most senior levels of the radical organization, Ansar al-Islam, that controls this corner of Iraq. In 2000 this agent offered al Qaeda safe haven in the region. After we swept al Qaeda from Afghanistan, some of its members accepted this safe haven. They remain their today. Zarqawi's activities are not confined to this small corner of northeast Iraq. He traveled to Baghdad in May 2002 for medical treatment, staying in the capital of Iraq for two months while he recuperated to fight another day. During this stay, nearly two dozen extremists converged on Baghdad and established a base of operations there. These al Qaeda affiliates, based in Baghdad, now coordinate the movement of people, money and supplies into and throughout Iraq for his network, and they've now been operating freely in the capital for more than eight months. <b>[end of video]</b> Iraqi officials deny accusations of ties with al Qaeda. These denials are simply not credible. Last year an al Qaeda associate bragged that the situation in Iraq was, quote, "good," that Baghdad could be transited quickly. We know these affiliates are connected to Zarqawi because they remain even today in regular contact with his direct subordinates, including the poison cell plotters, and they are involved in moving more than money and materiel. Last year, <b>two suspected al Qaeda operatives were arrested crossing from Iraq into Saudi Arabia.</b> They were linked to associates of the Baghdad cell, and one of them received training in Afghanistan on how to use cyanide. From his terrorist network in Iraq, Zarqawi can direct his network in the Middle East and beyond. We, in the United States, all of us at the State Department, and the Agency for International Development -- we all lost a dear friend with the cold-blooded murder of Mr. Lawrence Foley in Amman, Jordan, last October -- a despicable act was committed that day. The assassination of an individual whose sole mission was to assist the people of Jordan. <b>The captured assassin says his cell received money and weapons from Zarqawi for that murder. </b> After the attack, <b>an associate of the assassin left Jordan to go to Iraq to obtain weapons and explosives for further operations.</b> Iraqi officials protest that they are not aware of the whereabouts of Zarqawi or of any of his associates. Again, these protests are not credible. We know of Zarqawi's activities in Baghdad. I described them earlier. And now let me add one other fact. We asked a friendly security service to approach Baghdad about extraditing Zarqawi and providing information about him and his close associates. This service contacted Iraqi officials twice, and we passed details that should have made it easy to find Zarqawi. The network remains in Baghdad. Zarqawi still remains at large to come and go. <b>As my colleagues around this table and as the citizens they represent in Europe know</b>, Zarqawi's terrorism is not confined to the Middle East. Zarqawi and his network have plotted terrorist actions against countries, including France, Britain, Spain, Italy, Germany and Russia. <b>According to detainee Abuwatia</b> (ph), who graduated from Zarqawi's terrorist camp in Afghanistan, [unintelligible] at least nine North African extremists from 2001 to travel to Europe to conduct poison and explosive attacks. Since last year, <b>members of this network have been apprehended in France, Britain, Spain and Italy</b>. By our last count, 116 operatives connected to this global web have been arrested. The chart you are seeing shows the network in Europe. We know about this European network, and we know about its links to Zarqawi, <b>because the detainee who provided the information about the targets also provided the names of members of the network.</b> <b>Three of those he identified by name</b> were arrested in France last December. In the apartments of the terrorists, authorities found circuits for explosive devices and a list of ingredients to make toxins. The detainee who helped piece this together says the plot also targeted Britain. Later evidence, again, proved him right. When the British unearthed a cell there just last month, one British police officer was murdered during the disruption of the cell. We also know that Zarqawi's colleagues have been active in the Pankisi Gorge, Georgia and in Chechnya, Russia. The plotting to which they are linked is not mere chatter. Members of Zarqawi's network say their goal was to kill Russians with toxins. We are not surprised that Iraq is harboring Zarqawi and his subordinates. This understanding builds on decades long experience with respect to ties between Iraq and al Qaeda. Going back to the early and mid-1990s, when bin Laden was based in Sudan, <b>an al Qaeda source tells us</b> that Saddam and bin Laden reached an understanding that al Qaeda would no longer support activities against Baghdad. Early al Qaeda ties were forged by secret, high-level intelligence service contacts with al Qaeda, secret Iraqi intelligence high-level contacts with al Qaeda. We know members of both organizations met repeatedly and have met at least eight times at very senior levels since the early 1990s. <b>In1996, a foreign security service tells us,</b> that bin Laden met with a senior Iraqi intelligence official in Khartoum, and later met the director of the Iraqi intelligence service. Saddam became more interested as he saw al Qaeda's appalling attacks. <b>A detained al Qaeda member tells us</b> that Saddam was more willing to assist al Qaeda after the 1998 bombings of our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. Saddam was also impressed by al Qaeda's attacks on the USS Cole in Yemen in October 2000. Iraqis continued to visit bin Laden in his new home in Afghanistan.<b>A senior defector, one of Saddam's former intelligence chiefs in Europe, says</b> Saddam sent his agents to Afghanistan sometime in the mid-1990s to provide training to al Qaeda members on document forgery. From the late 1990s until 2001, the Iraqi embassy in Pakistan played the role of liaison to the al Qaeda organization. <b>Some believe, some claim these contacts do not amount to much. </b> They say Saddam Hussein's secular tyranny and al Qaeda's religious tyranny do not mix. I am not comforted by this thought. Ambition and hatred are enough to bring Iraq and al Qaeda together, enough so al Qaeda could learn how to build more sophisticated bombs and learn how to forge documents, and enough so that al Qaeda could turn to Iraq for help in acquiring expertise on weapons of mass destruction. And the record of Saddam Hussein's cooperation with other Islamist terrorist organizations is clear. Hamas, for example, opened an office in Baghdad in 1999, and Iraq has hosted conferences attended by Palestine Islamic Jihad. These groups are at the forefront of sponsoring suicide attacks against Israel. Al Qaeda continues to have a deep interest in acquiring weapons of mass destruction. As with the story of Zarqawi and his network, <b>I can trace the story of a senior terrorist operative</b> telling how Iraq provided training in these weapons to al Qaeda. Fortunately, this operative is now detained, and he has told his story. I will relate it to you now as he, himself, described it. This senior al Qaeda terrorist was responsible for one of al Qaeda's training camps in Afghanistan. <b>His information comes firsthand from his personal involvement at senior levels of al Qaeda.</b> He says bin Laden and his top deputy in Afghanistan, deceased al Qaeda leader Mohammed Atef, did not believe that al Qaeda labs in Afghanistan were capable enough to manufacture these chemical or biological agents. They needed to go somewhere else. They had to look outside of Afghanistan for help. Where did they go? Where did they look? <b>They went to Iraq. </b> The support that (inaudible) describes included Iraq offering chemical or biological weapons training for two al Qaeda associates beginning in December 2000. <b>He says that a militant known as Abu Abdula Al-Iraqi</b> (ph) had been sent to Iraq several times between 1997and 2000 for help in acquiring poisons and gases. Abdula Al-Iraqi (ph) characterized the relationship he forged with Iraqi officials as successful. <hr></blockquote>
oops, I posted it without seeing yours. What would you think about deleting yours since I highlighted the "evidence" sources.
http://drudgereport.com/flash1.htm Al-Qaeda-Iraq link being investigated in Germany, report says Wed Feb 5 2003 13:11:03 ET Munich, Germany (dpa) - Federal investigators in Germany are looking into a possible threat of attacks by a Jordanian linked by the United States to the Iraqi regime, according to a published report. The report, due to hit newsstands in Thursday's edition of Sueddeutsche Zeitung newspaper, says investigators believe Abu Mossab Al Zarqawi was planning assassinations and other attacks in Europe. The 36-year-old terrorist is believed to be the ``operative head'' of the El Tawhid group which planned attacks in Germany last year. The United States believes he may be a link between al Qaeda and Iraq. German investigators base their suspicions on evidence obtained during raids last April on El Tawhid suspects in several German cities. The raids netted videos, forged identity papers, computers and mobile phones. Germany's Chief Prosecutor Kay Nehm said at the time that ``evidence pointed to'' impending attacks on targets in Germany. The newspaper report says investigators turned up evidence in the form of bugged phone calls and eyewitness testimony by a mole who worked for both sides, all of it implicating Zarqawi directly. A mole was quoted as saying Zarqawi had called him the previous year from a hideout in Iran and had ``ordered'' him to carry out attacks in Germany in retaliation for Israeli incursions in the West Bank and Gaza. The attacks were to target ``Israeli installations'' in Germany such as synagogues. The mole was quoted as being told by Zarqawi that Germans were to be spared if possible, but that Jewish blood must be shed. END
Could it be any clearer what is going on? This sounds like a mass conspiracy evolving to eliminate not only the US but its allies and non-Muslims. If Iraq is so keen on keeping their WoMD, then they must want to use them and on us. They certainly don't need them for protection...except maybe from us. But, it's clear they are choosing war over peace with their actions. They feel entitled to have any WoMD they want and we know tyranny and WoMD are not a good match nor a road to a peaceful future. They will not stop until they have nukes and then what? In many ways, this situation...if unchecked...could evolve into a situation that is worse than the Holocaust and Hitler. Noone with half a brain is going to believe Saddam to do the right thing....ever. His actions have taught us that. This war is going forward. There is no way around it. People will die...but we will win. As far as the aftermath Iraq, it can't be worse than an Iraq run by Saddam with WoMD. I wasn't convinced(or didn't want to believe) as much before but Powell's presentation was sobering. No matter how much I want a good, peaceful ending to this crisis...it's just a pipe dream. It's time to wake up and smell the roses. Time to anny up and kick in. Our administration knows a lot more than they can tell us and their not just making this stuff up. Now, I'm wondering...what do we do if Iraq uses these weapons on our soldiers? They may be protected by their equipment but what will our retaliation be? War is hell...but here it comes.
t-minus... Why would we wait more than a few days now? The al-qaeda stuff seems tenuous, but as a citizen I have to say that I have been successfully confused as to what the bar for war is... preemptive strikes b/c of wmds vs. a threat to the US. Let's go get 'em!!
achebe - wait..if they're a threat to the US, then a unilateral strike is entirely appropriate, correct? i mean if they're really a valid threat... if we want a coalition, then we focus on the issues of iraq snubbing their nose at the UN, collectively. the security council signed an order saying "do this or else." they're not doing it. i don't think it's a matter of confusing the american people at all...i think both are true..i think iraq is a threat, in large part because they do snub their nose at the un weapons inspectors. the two go hand-in-hand.
Iraq's responses: "lies and fabrications with no material proof" (huh?) "typical American show" (hmm...like the show put on by Stevenson at the UN during the Cuban missle crisis? yea) "stunts and special effects" (hollywood?) "cartoon films" (disney?) Iraq lies so much that they actually are starting to convince themselves. The rest of the world is not so stupid, however.
Who will support Iraq when the war starts. Anyone? I'm just curious as to how big this could potentially get.
http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51213&perpage=30&pagenumber=2 so now we have: UK Czech Republic Hungary Denmark Italy Poland Portugal Spain Bulgaria Estonia Latvia Lithuania Romania Slovakia Slovenia Albania Croatia Macedonia and very strong statements today from the Spanish and Chilean delegates, who serve on the UN Security Council...and now Chirac is singing a different tune, perhaps?
i believe all the terrorism group, n anti american government may support iraq undergroound, i think its not going to be much of a war but its after the war that is scary , more hatred n it also depends how many iraqis die!!!
The war is not the scary part, it is the bit where just before they are thrown out or defeated, they may launch WMD into Israel, thus triggering a MUCH bigger war. DD
