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Potential Government Shutdown

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Astrodome, Jan 19, 2018.

  1. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Oh I get that is the spin you'll hear from Democrats, but in the real world, DACA has nothing to do with funding the government. Now sure, Democrats have decided to shut down the government unless they get their way on DACA, but that doesn't mean that an immigration policy inherently has anything to do with government funding.

    A party can decide to shut the government due to not getting their way on literally any issue, it doesn't mean that issue actually has anything to do with government funding.
     
  2. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Did you miss the part where Trump rejected a bipartisan proposal? Looks like you did...
     
  3. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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  4. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    On DACA, not on funding the government. They are two separate issues. Obama rejected numerous bills to defund Obamacare that led up to the 2013 government shutdown, does that mean you think Obama caused the 2013 shutdown? I know there's no chance you'd ever blame him for anything so I pretty much have you in a box here.
     
  5. FranchiseBlade

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    It wasn't spin. It was listed as an issue before this happened. It was always that way, and the GOP knew it. But rather than taking a holistic view of the shutdown, you've decided to only look at one part.

    Honestly, most of us aren't that interested in such a narrow simplistic view of the issue.
     
  6. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Sure, the Democrats threatened a shutdown unless they got their way, they didn't get their way so they decided to shut down the government.....how is that not their fault for choosing to shut down the government over not getting their way on an immigration policy?

    If Republicans decided to shut down the government over....let's say defunding Obamacare, would it be the fault of Democrats for not giving in to that policy when the Republicans shut down the government?

    Try to work with me here.
     
  7. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Lulz, I've criticized Obama plenty. You can't do so for Trump or your party (and yes, they are your party, don't play this unbiased neutral role here.) even when it is pretty easy to see that there would have been no shutdown under probably any other reasonable candidate on both sides.

    Clearly, the Democrats are worried that the GOP isn't going to do anything to help them out when it comes to DACA, if the GOP claims it cares about the issue then what really is the hold up here? When DACA comes around to expiring, what promise do the Dems have that Trump isn't going to try and pander to his base again?

    You were so anti-trump in 2016 and now you defend him even when right in your face you see he flat out lied to the Democrats and now you want them to eat more of his lies?

    Weren't you anti-Trump? Didn't you talk about how terrible it would be if he were president? Why is it so hard for you to place blame on him now? That R works that strong against you?
     
  8. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    I noticed you never answered my question, so you blame Obama for the 2013 government shutdown then?

    As to me being anti-Trump, I always have been, still am. That doesn't mean I'm going to blame him for Democrats deciding to shut down the government. I think the misunderstanding here is that there is a difference between being anti-Trump and suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome. I personally think Trump is an embarrassment and I dispose a lot of his politics....but I don't have Trump Derangement Syndrome. You seem to think anyone that doesn't suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome is one of his supporters.....which is odd, but whatever.
     
  9. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Yes. Ultimately the president shares a large share of the blame. Obama did then and the president should be aware that most people will blame the head of the snake and not the tail. I think blame is complicated and can be shared, but if you ask me to blame a single person, it would be the president, whoever that president is, in most situations at least.

    Trump, here, this is his. The way he keeps trying to hold DACA over the Dems is pretty sick and when he said he'd agree on a proposal and then got it and then denied said proposal...well, what do you expect them to do as a result of that?

    When DACA does expire, whose to say Trump isn't going to pander to his base again? As he has done over and over and over again.
     
  10. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Fair enough, I don't think for a second that Obama was to blame for the 2013 shutdown and Trump isn't to blame for this one.

    When a political party decides to hold government funding hostage in order to demand they get their way, they are to blame if the government doesn't get funded. It's essentially political terrorism. You can decide that an issue is important enough to justify those means, but you can't change what it is.

    You seem to think that DACA is important enough to shut down the government if you don't get your way, I would strongly disagree. The only real difference between this and what the Republicans did in 2013 is that funding Obamacare had something to do with funding the government while DACA has nothing at all to do with funding the government.

    Just curious, would you support the Republicans as a minority party with a Democrat majority in both houses and in the white house deciding to shut down the government unless Democrats agree to pass social programs they support? For example, let's say Republicans want to outlaw affirmative action programs and refuse to allow the government to be funded till they get their way.....would you support that and blame the Democrat president for not giving in to that?
     
  11. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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  12. FranchiseBlade

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    It is in part their fault. But it isn't entirely their fault.

    Sure the Democrats threatened a shutdown unless Congress acted according to the belief of the majority of this nation and had some kind of DACA reform... Yet the GOP knew this and refused to have any kind of DACA reform. How is that not their fault?
     
  13. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    The thing here is this. The Republicans, Trump included, are mostly on record for wanting the same thing. So it's not just the Dems getting their way, according to even McConnell tonight, the GOP wants to solve DACA...so really, why is there no compromise here?

    Yes, that is fair. There is a huge difference between DACA and Obamacare, it is why I never brought it up personally but...

    I stand by what I said earlier. This for the Dems is a political move. They are not going to let this last long. They want to show their base that they care about their issues and are willing to stand for them. This plays well with the Democratic base, which at times can get rather lazy tbh when it comes to getting out and voting.

    But none of this happens if Trump just sticks to his word. That is the main point here. Trump did not stick to his word and continues to punt the DACA issue further and further down the road. The Dems have no reason to believe that he's going to honor his word when it is near expiring.

    I would not support the Republicans on the issue but the principal, yes. If they have the votes to do it, then they should do it. I think it is on leadership period to find some kind of compromise, I think the government should try its best to govern all of the country, not just some of it.

    I don't think the Dems are just doing it to get what they want because the GOP wants it too (or claims to) so really, what is the hold up here? Why is it punted down the road constantly? This seems like it would be an easy win for the GOP to compromise here and look like the ones who are working to for all of the people in America.

    In this situation, if say the repeal of AA was agreed upon basically by both parties, and the people as well, then yes, I would certainly blame the Democratic president for not finding the middle ground on what should be an easy issue here.
     
  14. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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  15. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Exactly they don't give a damn. It's just politics and trying to pay the blame game. Republicans took DACA away and dens said no. It's the Republicans who are sitting down the govt to serve their racist constituents by denying children who came here citizenship. And to do that they are willing to burn it all down and try to blame Dems.

    I just don't think Americans are going to blame the Dems as this president has lost credibility
     
  16. NewRoxFan

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    http://www.weeklystandard.com/gover...congress-plays-the-blame-game/article/2011241
     
  17. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    trump and his people should have listened to this guy...

     
  18. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    This is the infantile brat running our country...

    How Trump's TV habits raised the risk of a shutdown
    White House aides say the president woke up spoiling for a fight and focused his attention on the spending deal after it came up on his favorite cable news show.
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/18/trump-tv-habits-government-shutdown-2018-346494
     
  19. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    ... who leads the country by taking directions from Fox & Friends...

     
  20. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    The guy is a moron. He complains about Dems being obstructionist when all they want is to RESTORE DACA and the GOP acts like the Dems are asking for this outrageous thing - letting kids who came here to this country stay. Naturally he forgets the years of Mitch McConnell saying they will oppose anything Obama does to make sure he doesn't get a victory. Laughable.

    People like him are the worst - not even worth engaging. How they can be so blind and stupid is beyond comprehension.
     

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