Crash, if you are so impressed by that, why did Juwan get traded for Raef La Frenz? Traded by the Nuggets with Nick Van Exel, Avery Johnson, and Tariq Abdul-Wahad to the Dallas Mavericks for Juwan Howard, Donnell Harvey, Tim Hardaway and a 2002 first-round pick on 2/21/02.
Crash, if you are so impressed by that, why did Juwan get traded for Raef La Frenz? Traded by the Nuggets with Nick Van Exel, Avery Johnson, and Tariq Abdul-Wahad to the Dallas Mavericks for Juwan Howard, Donnell Harvey, Tim Hardaway and a 2002 first-round pick on 2/21/02. Because Dallas needed a center. At the time, LaFrentz was putting up 13 ppg, 7 rpg, 3 bpg. Exactly what Dallas needed to strengthen their center spot, at least that's what they thought. And look at Juwan Howard's career numbers. You mean to tell me that every year Howard scored 18 ppg and 7 rpg against bench players?
I don't think Howard is a great player by any means, but I do think he is an upgrade over Mo, and his contract is much more reasonable than Mo's...
from Deckard: Sure is. I'm glad there are reprisals Boozer's got to be the first Dookie to ever refuse calls from Coach K, it would be cool if he just showed up at Boozer's door and rips him to shreds.
So for 10 years Howard has put up those numbers when they didn't have any impact on the game. That's crazy.
Rocks, They could have traded anyone else if Juwan was so valuable. Also, Denver KNEW they were going to get rid of him cause his contract was up. The Magic signed him to another bad contract (though not as bad as Washington) and decided to dump it to us with McGrady. I'm SURE if we just did Steve for T-Mac, the Magic would balk. They insisted we take Juwan's contract. Why did they trade Juwan after just ONE YEAR?? We didn't even do that to Kato or Mo Taylor.
For the majority of his career he hasn't made much of an impact on his teams, they could lose with or without him and they could win with or without him, hardly ever made a difference.
They traded Juwan Howard because they had Drew Gooden and Dwight Howard and were rebuilding. With Cato coming in they had their center. So why keep Howard? You can say that about Chris Webber and a lot of other teams. Look at Sacramento, they win with or without him. It's about having a strong supporting cast. When Howard had a strong supporting cast (Dallas, Washington), the teams won. Meanwhile, Denver couldn't win, even with a healthy Dice, Van Exel, LaFrentz, Howard, etc. Sometimes a superstar just can't get it done, even Dream missed the playoffs because of a crappy supporting cast. Same for McGrady last year.
Right on with Chris Webber! Howard did not have a strong supporting cast in Dallas, he was the supporting cast! In Denver he was counted on to be something else and failed, same thing happened in Orlando, however in Houston he won't be counted on to win games just to be part of the supporting cast, which is fine.
Rocks Millenium, Juwan Howard has only 1.5 winning NBA Seasons and that was with the Mavericks. They ONLY kept him for 1.5 seasons. The Nuggets kept him for less than 2 seasons and we know the Magic kept him for just one year. Lets look at another player, Sam Cassell, who was traded about the same amount of times. Notice how the teams actually improve when he shows up. Notice how many playoff games he's played on. Sam is OLD too. Notice how he improves his game every year. Notice how far Orlando tanked when they got Howard. Magic Season W L % 2003-04 21 61 .256 (howard) 2002-03 42 40 .512 (no howard)
I wouldn't want Chris Webber either! Granted he's 10x better than Howard. But he never plays a full season, plus he's a choker in the playoffs. I like 'CLUTCH CITY'.
No question I would rather have Cassell than Howard. But isn't the question rather - do you want Taylor/Weatherspoon or Howard? In that case, I'd rather have Howard. I would think that pretty much everything and more which you brought up against Howard could be held against Taylor as well...
Howard wasn't the reason they tanked try no Doc Rivers... T-mac tired of carrying the team... Drew Gooden playing out of position... bad start and the team quit... no D. Armstrong... Howard and T-mac were still one of the top 5 guard/post player combos in the league last year (T-Mac's words) look, Howard has never been a franchise player (even though he got franchise money and was expected to be a franchise guy for many years) He is a nice PF that gets 18 and 7, plays hard, and is a good character guy... and he is getting paid LESS than Cato and Mo T (and he produces better than either)
Exactly my point. I never said Howard was a superstar, I said he was a pretty good player. He's a supporting cast player which is exactly what the Rockets need. The argument was never that he was a superstar, the argument was tinman saying he was basically a garbage player, which is ridiculous. And Francis only has 3 winning seasons. I don't care how good you are, if you don't have help it doesn't matter. As for Orlando tanking with Howard, they also tanked with Tracy McGrady. So by definition you're saying that McGrady isnt' any good either. It's ridiculous to blame Howard for not winning. Denver was a horribly run team for years. They had Van Exel, McDyess, Mutombo, etc., and they STILL couldn't win consistently, so why would you blame Howard for being a poorly run team? Same goes for Orlando.
No kidding he's not going to put up 17 and 7, not with McGrady and Yao on the team. But he will probably put up 13 and 7 which is all we really need. As for rather having Cassell then Howard, that's ridiculous because the Rockets don't have an option of either Cassell or Howard. That's like saying I would rather have Dwayne Wade then Jimmy Jackson. It just isn't an option so why bring it up?
When are we gonna have another on of those "best poster" tournaments in the Hangout? We can create a new category for tinman: the "Most Persistent Blind Hater" award.
