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Pope says smacking children is ok "if their dignity is maintained"

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by AroundTheWorld, Feb 6, 2015.

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Do you think it is ok to hit your children?

  1. Yes, how I raise my children is my business

    10 vote(s)
    45.5%

  2. Only if "their dignity is maintained"

    6 vote(s)
    27.3%

  3. No, never.

    6 vote(s)
    27.3%
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  1. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Pope Francis says it is OK to smack children if their ‘dignity is maintained’
    Vatican defends comments about ‘disciplining with justice’ after facing previous criticism from UN over attitude to corporal punishment

    Pope Francis told parents it is OK to spank their children to discipline them – as long as their dignity is maintained.

    Francis made the remarks this week during his weekly general audience, which was devoted to the role of fathers in the family.

    Francis outlined the traits of a good father: one who forgives but is able to “correct with firmness” while not discouraging the child.

    “One time, I heard a father in a meeting with married couples say ‘I sometimes have to smack my children a bit, but never in the face so as to not humiliate them’,” Francis said.

    “How beautiful.” he added. “He knows the sense of dignity! He has to punish them but does it justly and moves on.”

    The Rev Thomas Rosica, who collaborates with the Vatican press office, said the pope was obviously not speaking about committing violence or cruelty against a child but rather about “helping someone to grow and mature”.

    “Who has not disciplined their child or been disciplined by parents when we are growing up?” Rosica said in an email. “Simply watch Pope Francis when he is with children and let the images and gestures speak for themselves. To infer or distort anything else … reveals a greater problem for those who don’t seem to understand a pope who has ushered in a revolution of normalcy of simple speech and plain gesture.”

    The Catholic church’s position on corporal punishment came under sharp criticism last year during a grilling by members of a UN human rights committee monitoring implementation of the UN treaty on the rights of the child.

    In its final report, the committee members reminded the Holy See that the treaty explicitly requires signatories to take all measures, including legislative and educational, to protect children from all forms of physical or mental violence – including while in the care of parents.

    It recommended that the Holy See amend its own laws to specifically prohibit corporal punishment of children, including within the family, and to create ways to enforce that ban in Catholic schools and institutions around the globe.

    The recommendations were prompted by reports to the committee of widespread physical abuse and use of corporal punishment in Catholic-run schools and institutions, particularly in Ireland, that committee members said had reached “endemic levels.”

    The Vatican had argued that it in no way promoted corporal punishment, but that it also had no way to enforce any kind of ban on its use in Catholic schools, over which it has no jurisdiction. It noted that it was only responsible for implementing the child rights treaty inside the Vatican City State.

    That said, it stressed that the term “punishment” is not even used in the section of church teaching that refers to parents’ duties to “educate, guide, correct, instruct and discipline” their children.

    In its written response to the committee, the Vatican said that according to church teaching, parents “should be able to rectify their child’s inappropriate action by imposing certain reasonable consequences for such behaviour, taking into consideration the child’s ability to understand the same as corrective”.

    The head of the Vatican delegation told the committee that he would take the UN proposal to ban corporal punishment in all settings back to Rome for consideration.

    The Holy See isn’t the only signatory to the convention that has been singled out on the issue. Britain received a similar recommendation to repeal its law allowing parents to spank their children when it came before the UN committee in 2002.

    Some 39 countries prohibit corporal punishment in all settings, including at home, where most abuse occurs. Those nations range from Sweden and Germany to South Sudan and Turkmenistan.

    In the United States, parents can legally hit their child as long as the force is “reasonable”. In 19 US states, it’s still legal for personnel in schools to practice “paddling”.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/06/pope-francis-parents-ok-smack-children-dignity


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    I kind of know what he means, but I think he is sending the completely wrong signal. Very irresponsible, in my opinion. What do you think?
     
    #1 AroundTheWorld, Feb 6, 2015
  2. Rox11

    Rox11 Member

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    Another thread by this guy....
     
    #2 Rox11, Feb 6, 2015
  3. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    Some individual studies are still showing well over 50% statistically on parental approval of corporal punishment within the home. While that covers anything from a pat on the bottom to: completely hypothetically speaking, an open-handed slap in the face at a Target parking lot, a metal buckle on the skull due to a poorly gripped belt, a cordless phone to the kneecap or a Florsheim to the rear; I think this is more widespread and functional than idealistic and progressive parents and psychologists would like to think.

    Every once in a while I imagine parents lack the energy, communication skills and time to condition or constrict specific behavior in kids without provoking their basic instincts for self preservation, so yelling or physical contact becomes a usable tool.
     
    #3 Dairy Ashford, Feb 6, 2015
  4. DCkid

    DCkid Member

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    There was a poll on this board a while back and 80% agreed they would spank their kids.

    I was kind of surprised by those results.
     
    #4 DCkid, Feb 6, 2015
  5. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    I know the pope means well... and he doesn't get to choose which questions he is asked, and what the world media is going to seize on...

    But any Papal direction that leads more parents to feel justified in hitting their kids is reckless.
     
    #5 Ottomaton, Feb 6, 2015
    1 person likes this.
  6. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title
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    I wonder what the results would have been if the poll was taken only by people who have kids.
     
    #6 Haymitch, Feb 6, 2015
  7. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    Yelling & Spanking can be very effective tools.
     
    #7 juicystream, Feb 6, 2015
  8. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    There is a world of difference between perceived pain vs physical punishment. I do not believe its ok to beat a child into submission.

    Outside of that, I've learned a long time ago not to criticize parents on how they raise their kids. Every parent, the relationship between the father and mother and the kid are different. What works for one may not work for another. I have found the most distressed kids (the trying ones) are often due to poor relationships between the mother and father.
     
    #8 Space Ghost, Feb 6, 2015
    2 people like this.
  9. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    I waant to spank the parents who let their kids run wild, hollering and screaming, while I'm waiting in line at the cashier. Even more so if the mommy is cute.
     
    #9 hooroo, Feb 6, 2015
  10. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    Amen Brother.
     
    #10 REEKO_HTOWN, Feb 6, 2015
  11. Remii

    Remii Member

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    We criticize people on just about everything else they do so it's fair game to criticize people on how they raise their children. .
     
    #11 Remii, Feb 6, 2015
  12. bongman

    bongman Member

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    #12 bongman, Feb 6, 2015
  13. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    The way people raise their kids is our business. The way they raise them directly impacts how they grow up and perform in society, how they act around other kids, how they act in the workplace, whether they kill people, etc.
     
    #13 justtxyank, Feb 6, 2015
  14. Major

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    What is controversial here? Polls show a large majority of Americans are OK with spanking in general, even if they don't do it themselves. I'd guess that most adults today were spanked as children and probably feel that they came out OK and still love their parents. That may change with future generations, but I don't think anything the Pope said is outside of mainstream thought either here or anywhere else in the world.
     
    #14 Major, Feb 6, 2015
  15. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    kids got spanked at school when I was growing up.

    parents? pfft yeah all the time. who cares as long as it's not abusive
     
    #15 bigtexxx, Feb 6, 2015
  16. Baba Booey

    Baba Booey Member

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    I cannot agree more. I am dumbfounded by parents who just let their kids run wild, inconveniencing everyone around them. At Costco a month or so ago, a woman had her two kids blocking the main aisle in the store. A dozen people were log-jammed because of her and her kids. It was as if the mother didn't have a single concern for anyone but herself and her two stupid kids.

    I am in favor of more spanking. I would never spank a child, though, cause I'll never have one. ;)

    (knock on wood)
     
    #16 Baba Booey, Feb 6, 2015
  17. bnb

    bnb Member

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    the Euro view on spanking is different from the US one.

    ....and the Pope and clergy should keep their hands off kids.
     
    #17 bnb, Feb 6, 2015
  18. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    not sure why, but I lol'd at this

    need to spread rep before giving more to pouhe
     
    #18 bigtexxx, Feb 6, 2015
  19. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Child not an exact science
    IT is also not one size fits all

    Rocket River
     
    #19 Rocket River, Feb 6, 2015
  20. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title
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    Does anyone have a Rocket River to English translator?
     
    #20 Haymitch, Feb 6, 2015
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