For those who have been happy that Pope Francis has been changing things at the Vatican on one issue at least he is sticking to the previous line. http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/...kes-toughest-remarks-yet-on-horrific-abortion Pope Francis makes toughest remarks yet on 'horrific' abortion VATICAN CITY -- Pope Francis made his toughest remarks to date on abortion when he called the practice "horrific" on Monday. "It is horrific even to think that there are children, victims of abortion, who will never see the light of day," the pontiff said during his yearly address to diplomats accredited to the Vatican, a speech known as his "State of the World" address. Conservatives in the Roman Catholic Church had previously accused the pope of not speaking out forcefully enough against abortion. While showing no signs of changing the Church's position against abortion, Francis has not spoken out against it as sternly or as repeatedly as his predecessors Pope Benedict XVI and the late John Paul II since his election in March. Both of those popes often delivered sermons against abortion, which the Church considers murder. Conservatives were alarmed when Francis told Italian Jesuit magazine Civilta Cattolica in September that the Church must shake off an "obsession" with teachings on abortion, contraception and homosexuality. His stance favoring mercy over condemnation has disoriented conservative Catholics, notably in rich countries such as the United States, where the Catholic Church has become polarized on issues such as abortion. Last year, Bishop Thomas J. Tobin of Providence, Rhode Island, said he was disappointed that the pope had not addressed "the evil of abortion" more directly.
Abortion is a pretty clear-cut argument for Christians. No surprise here. See Jeremiah 1:5 for details.
Lol, far right wing of the church. I'm not Catholic, so the words of this Pope matter little to me. But I think it's so interesting how he's being pushed as a hard liberal when it comes to church matters. I mean...if you really look at what he's saying, and not the commentary of the writers, he's really not as liberal as he's being portrayed. But hey, I'm sure for the Pope, if being portrayed as liberal means a better standing of the Church in the eyes of the public, he'll take it.
#1 I do not know that the fall out is a positive for the Pope, he has alientated a number of people, including wealthy Catholics. #2 His emphasis on class and poverty is certainly "liberal" and he has taken it farther than John Paul II or any modern Pope. He has made a number of moves advancing the issue of poverty within the Church, which has upset the old guard. #3 No, he is not Jerry Brown, but he is very liberal for a Pope. He has made efforts to reconnect with homosexuals and a number of groups that historically have gotten the cold shoulder. Overall, when you consider the restraints he is under, he is a very liberal and open minded Pope.
never got the linkage between abortion and gay rights in american politics. both parties have been wrong on one of these, sometimes both. but only one involves the killing of innocents.
I don't think people were expecting him to condone abortion but to soften his rhetoric on it. Nook might be right though that this is just Francis throwing a bone to the far right rather than any major stance he is outlining. I think it is pretty clear that he isn't interested in fighting the type of culture war that John Paul II and Benedicto did.
The Pope isn't "liberal" he is just pushing the views of Jesus. Nearly everything he has said and preached is simply the teachings of Jesus. Love one another, turn the other cheek, don't judge, etc. Countless Christians live their everyday lives that way. However, this doesn't change the fact that in democracies you fight for what is important to you. To Christians, that is sanctity of marriage, protection of the unborn and other hot topics. People that are anti-gay marriage can still love and be respectful to gays. Just as they can love a woman who had an abortion. We all sin, and only God can judge you. That is what the Pope preaches. He's not throwing a bone to the far right. The protection of the unborn is a value he follows - because he follows the teachings of the Bible and Jesus. I feel the Pope just wants to bring humility back to Christians and Catholics - and he is leading by example. Most people who view the Pope as liberal, are just grasping at straws.
It makes sense. On the issues where he's softly advocated change, it has been change that is beneficial to the more vulnerable segment of society. With abortion, it's fairly universal among Catholics that abortion is not cool. If he advocated for change on an issue where Catholics are united, why would he be Pope? It would kind of be like playing god. Still, I was hopeful that he would at least soften the stance on attitude towards other people's abortions, even if he held to the belief that abortion is bad.
What exact words do you expect him to say? Sugarcoating it isn't going to make his stance any different
As a nonbeliever Mr. Pope can have whatever opinion he wants on abortion. As log as he's down with contraception, we're good.
1) If he's alienated people, I assure you that he's gained twice the amount. 2) Even with that argument, it's hard to skew it left or right in terms of Christianity, because their central character, Jesus, was all about helping the poor. So a Christian isn't left or right depending on if they believe on helping or not helping the poor, they all believe that. 3) I guess "approaching" homosexuals would be considered liberal to the general audience, but it just goes back to central Christianity of approaching all people who are sinners. What would be "left" of the Pope is to say that when the Bible says homosexuality is wrong, it was only for that time period and is no longer valid. Which he has never said, so I don't consider him left.
Now I'm curious: what does it matter if he alienated wealthy Catholics? What can they do to the Pope? I'm not very well versed in Catholicism, but I'm pretty sure he'll be untouchable until he retires or dies. And even then, I don't recall ever hearing Catholics hating on a dead Pope.
Nope.... The majority of concern for Pope Francis has been the treatment of the poor and inequality of the power between the wealthy and the poor. He did it before he was Pope and has done so after being named Pope. It SHOULD NOT be a liberal or radical stance, as it is a huge part of Catholicism and the teachings of Jesus Christ, but it has been marginalized over the last 300 years. Instead ancillary issues have been VASTLY over discussed and used as a distraction. It makes conservatives (including Catholic conservatives) very uncomfortable as it directly challenges their lifestyle.
They cannot "do" anything other than cut off donations, attempt to marginalize his influence or leave the Church.
#1 I don't agree with your premise that the Pope has gained twice the followers. Further, there are many prominent Catholics, including Cardinals that do not like the emphasis being what Pope Francis had focused on. Historically Popes are to be measured. #2 Simply stating that all Christians know the importance of the poor really means nothing. There is prosperity Christianity for example. In the Catholic Church the emphasis has shifted from the poor to other issues. In fact some Church leaders were lectured by the Pope on spending, something they did not appreciate. #3 Concerning marginalized groups, you can say that Christanity is supposed to be open armed, but in practice that is not always the case. Francis is not calling for a reformation, but he is calling for a return to the veneration of the poor and a devaluation of materialism.
1. Not that he's gained twice the followers going to church, but there's no doubt about it that the general audience (meaning catholics and non) actually LIKES and has a positive outlook on Francisco in comparison to past popes. 2. But the idea and emphasis of a specific focus on poor people (in Christianity) doesn't make you a liberal. I can name you a ton of ultra-conservative protestant preachers that have huge churches but refuse to take a salary from the church and spend a large amount of their ministry in the community helping others. Sure, some Catholics champion the cause for banning abortions, or same sex marriages, but those same (classically conservative) also might donate to charities and help the poor. What I'm essentially getting at, and agreeing with Svpernaut, is that the view that the Pope is "liberal" for emphasizing helping the poor and the issues with inequality is simply wrong. Rather, it's a re-emphasizing of something that is found in the core beliefs of Christianity. As an American, I strongly believe in the Declaration of Independence, and my belief in the right to "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" doesn't (or at least shouldn't) make me a conservative or a liberal. 3. Eh, I'm too bored to write out an answer for that. :grin:
