Poll: Would the Rockets Draft Position End Up the Same If We Had Traded for Simmons?

Maybe? But I'm not sure that even matters.

He's right that Simmons is a good return from drafting #1, but if we make that trade we are seriously on the clock to build around a seriously flawed player with a $35-40mm salary represented by Klutch who might do the same act Harden did in two years and fetch nowhere near the same return in draft capital.

Getting him now, especially owing Wall so much for the next two years, just doesn't make a lot of sense. What if we start out bad next year and want to tank again when we have our pick? Or in 2023?

If we'd passed on something like MPJ and a lesser draft package that's a different story. That's the trade that really should have happened from both teams' perspective.

 

Nope

 

52% of Getting Cade Cunningham, Evan Mobley, Jalen Green or Ben Simmons playing in a Wrong Era.

 

Rockets really dont have Young Professional 3 Point Shooters, So where does Ben Simmons fit, He Doesnt.

That is why LeBron James ignored the 76ers in Free Agency. Ben simply cant shoot 3 Pointers.

 

The difference between the Rockets being in the top 3-4 of the draft lottery odds and being 6-7 isn't very much, and I believe Simmons would have gotten the Rockets 4-5 more wins this season and that could prove very costly for the Rockets.

Also what no one seems to be discussing is that I don't think it would have taken long for Simmons to demand a trade from the Rockets. I don't think he would have stuck around for lottery years in 2021 and likely 2022.

I am fine with the Harden trade. The Rockets were not ever going to get back equal value for a player that at his peak is one of the 10 best to ever play.

Also, while the Nets are winning by riding Harden.... you can see cracks in their long term. Durant is missing a lot of time and is 33 years old next year. James Harden is 32 years old next year and is starting to have injuries carrying the Nets like he is Atlas. Kyrie Irvin isn't overly interested in playing a lot of games and he is 30 next year as well. Even Joe Harris is 30 next year. The Nets do not have any real young players that make a difference.

The Rockets have access to the Nets draft picks in 2023, 2024, 2025, 2026 and 2027.

Starting in 2023 KD/Harden/Kyrie/Harris are going to be ...... 34/33/31/31....... and by 2027 will be 38/37/35/35 ..... and that is assuming that KD and JH resign and Kyrie doesn't demand a trade.... and there is injury possibilities in there as well.

The Nets trade was never about 2021-2023 to me, it was about longer down the line....... I would argue that the Rockets picks from the Nets are more valuable than all the picks that the Thunder have because the Rockets picks have zero protections on them and there is a really good chance some of them will be lottery picks and likely high lottery picks.

That doesn't even take into account the Rockets own picks the next couple years being higher in the draft because the Rockets are losing, or the cap flexibility going forward.

 

Could we have immediately flipped Simmons to a third team? I don’t know the answer in terms of the rules or demand from other teams, but that seems key to whether we botched the trade or not. Same goes for any other player we could have gotten that seems better than Oladipo. I definitely think tanking makes sense, but it’s just a shame we ended up w such a predictably worthless asset in Dipo and picks that may or may be good.

to answer the specific question, we’d still be bad, but his defense and playmaking would make us less bad despite the fit issues.

 

I think almost a gurantee that Simmons demands a trade out of here if we got him in 2022 or the season after that. If it's the Rockets intention to tank for 2 years for lotto picks, I doubt Simmons is going to waste his prime doing that.

But yeah the Klutch factor too.

 

We probably could have flipped Simmons. But I'm not sure how good the market is for a player like him. He has a big contract, but he has major fit issues with most teams. You would essentially look for a semi-contending team that already has a bunch of shooters, but needs perimeter defense and play making.

I think we would have ended up getting 2 first rounders for Simmons plus fillers if the trade went down back in November.

 

No. Even if the Rockets still would have been bad, no way they would have been "20-game losing streak" bad. And if they were going to tank for the rebuild, they needed to go all out. Finishing with a record in the bottom 6-8 teams definitely wouldn't have been ideal. I think adding Simmons might have put them on the fast track to mediocrity.

 

As long as Wall is on team, it is a shetshow.

Not just because of his selfish play but because of Silas slavish devotion to him.

Wall devalues the franchise and all the players around him.

I can guarantee ONE thing however, Simmons would have had a much greater return at deadline than F'ing Oladipo.

2 FRP, a vet contract and a young player.

Minimum.

Javale McGee had more assets in return than Dipo.

Let that sink in.

 

That idea that a core of Simmons, Wood and Wall isn't good enough to get us into the late lottery is just silly to me from a talent standpoint. Now, would Simmons play to his current level or just give up and coast on a team that isn't as competitive? Who knows. But I'd bet we'd be in the run for the play in with that core. Hell, the defensive impact alone that Simmons is capable of having. And he certainly wouldn't have been a worse shooter than Vic.

 

There's no possible way you can argue that.

 

well he makes it infinitely harder to envision a scenario where we could acquire a legit franchise player, and i have no interest in anything that lowers those odds

 

Simmons is better than Dipo, but like Dipo he doesn't want to be here. Funny how this year, Simmons heard his name in the trades, all of sudden he's having one of this better years; like he's playing for a new contract. Proving his value to the 76ers. I used to think, well after they come here, maybe people change their mind. I don't think the current Rockets org is that enticing.

Simmons, in some way or another, would leak his preferred destination and Stone ends up disadvantage when negotiating trades.

The risk for Tilly is if we don't, he's stuck with paying Simmons, and our team while better than now; will still be worse than Harden's team. Plus, Tilly gifting Harden to Morey, is a no no.

Nah, we should stop going after players that don't want to be here.

 

Better at hyperbole than probabilities.

I get you, but the Rockets could use the draft capital from the trade to move John Wall for either expirings or for players that better Simmons. Is it ideal? No, but trading a franchise player after you brought in an albatross contract isn't an ideal situation.

I find it strange so many posters think it's hard to build around a 6'11" point center who can't shoot but has been top 10 in assists every season while being an elite defensive force.....

Simmons long contract can be a strength as much as it could be a weakness.

 

This. Simmons probably would have made the Rockets better in the short term but realistically they'd be a mediocre team. The Rockets are gambling on a shot at the top 4 pick which might not pan out, but they need to take chances.

 

I have no interest in trading wall for expirings or anything that improves the team. The MOST important thing is keeping the pick this year and having a high pick the next 2 seasons, and being as bad as possible. Simmons hurts the franchise in every way. If you think simmons can be the best player on a title contender, then i just disagree.

 

It's not the city they are avoiding... it's being on a bad team. Dipo knew Houston would be a bad spot to rehab his value to get paid.

You'd have to convince Simmons that the Rockets are committed to fielding a playoff team and you'd have to let him know the 2020 was going to be a transition season. I think using some of the draft capital from DET/WSH or Philly trade to move Wall would go a long ways in showing Simmons we were serious.

I just feel this type of thinking if failing before even starting.... Dipo and his situation wasn't the norm.

 

Before he came here, Oladipo said he wanted to play in Miami.
Expiring contract wanting to sign with a team that has capspace = no market value.

I hoped we might get Okpala or at least a young talent from Miami. But if there was no competition, I don't see how the return could be much better.
Great deal by Riley not to blink tho.

Simmons = 2frp? We don't know that. It would have depended. But having Simmons would have surely meant more wins right now, because he can pass the ball to the right places (unlike Dipo, who is a bail out passer) AND protect the ring (would have been a huge add). We would have got less from Philly for him though, and not had KPJ.

I hated Dipo from before the trade. My desire was all dem picks from BKN and all the players they traded - but I was also hoping to beat OKC and keep our pick. Much better off having a 52% chance at a difference maker than having a mediocre team

 

I don't know but who has to be bribed to get that first pick!
Who am I kidding bribing would require spending money.
Broke Billionaires don't deserve no p.. .playoffs????

With the 1st-3rd pick it could be a very quick rebuild.