That's cool, Max. I don't know of anyone here trying to convey any particular wisdom to the Germans or French or whatever. Some of us have tried to defend them for maintaining a view held by the vast majority of their own citizens, the UN and most of the world that the war was wrong, but no one here has said there weren't stupid people in every country. It's worth noting that Germany, along with France, Russia and most of the other countries who opposed the Iraq thing, were squarely behind us in Afghanistan and very sympathetic about 9/11 and friendly to the US until Bush steamrolled them and the UN on Iraq. Never before has a US president squandered so much good will so fast. Doesn't surprise me there's a backlash -- even a stupid one like this.
Iraq absolutely did have weapons of mass destruction in the early 90s. It was Saddam's responsibility to account for all of them, and prove they were destroyed. He did not (despite 14 UN resolutions and 12 years later), so we took him out. I'm really disappointed in Germany after their showing in this whole matter. They're now on the same level as the French in my book.
20th century Germany has advanced almost every form of architecture, music, fine art, performance art, literature, science, engineering (I could go on) that we enjoy today.
I agree. I would also say that the bulk of these contributions came in the first half of the 20th century. Since then, it is hard to argue that the political landscape in Germany has changed dramatically.
How many Americans believe we have FOUND the WMD? But I do agree with Max in certain sense, they are supposed to be more enlightened than us rude Americans.
that's my point exactly, pgabriel...we hear that all the time. we're stupid..they're sophisticated...during the clinton impeachment, how many times did we hear, "you know..the europeans are just laughing at us over this?" like i give a flying tinker's damn if someone across the atlantic is laughing at our domestic concerns...our judicial system..or our social mores... or anytime we talk about gun control or any social policy, we always hear, "you know, in europe they've been doing it this way for years..." like that's supposed to add some instant credibility to it. my thought in posting the poll was simply to show how it just ain't so.
Actually quite a bit has come post-war as well. Germans coming to the US after WWII drastically changed many things (especially American architecture). Then you look to German movements with performance art, film, etc., neo-expressionism...it is quite a bit. Germans are also still great scholars - anyone in graduate studies in the humanities must learn German for that reason (although most of us forget it immediately after passing the test).
I believe your brain has been neutered, hence your need to resort to name calling whenever you become lost in a discussion involving finance, politics, or other pertinent issues that leave you scared and confused. Have a great day!
They contributed KRAFTWERK in the late 20th century. Nothing could be more significant. CASE KLAUSED!
I've never gotten the impression that they believe we're stupid or unsophisticated. Just that we lack respect and understanding for culture, history, and such things. Some of that might be accurate but then again I think there's a bit of an old world chip on their shoulder also so you never really know where these opinions are coming from.
It was a third of those under 30, not the entire population. How many Americans do you think believe that we have found WMDs in Iraq? I would venture a guess that it might be around the 20% that believe the US-9/11 garbage.
Half of Americans think Saddam Hussein was behind the Sept. 11 attacks, and almost as many believe we've found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. To me, those numbers are much more troubling than how many Germans think the U.S. government could have been behind the Sept. 11 attacks. By the way, questioning a government's role in preventable attacks is pretty damn reasonable...especially when you consider who has gained the most from them. Dismissing an idea just because "we" wouldn't do that is ridiculous.
You think believing a guy like Saddam was behind the attack is more troubling than believing the US government was behind 9/11? Are you among the 1/3 of those people?
You know...I never trust polls. They can be just too misleading. I don't know the publication, who sponsored the poll or anything other than what was posted here but have some inkling that questions may have been leading. The article states that the people were asked whether the US was fully truthful. 68% said no. We might get a similar result here (though some would argue the level of 'truthfulness' or whether it mattered). After establishing the possible lack of credibility, it asks whether the US could have been behind the attacks. Someone might suggest they could have without thinking they actually were. You could answer "yes" even if you thought it was highly unlikely but just on the basis that the US ( and other countries) have done some dastardly deeds in the past to further a particular agenda. I don't think they are saying they believe the US was behind the attacks, but rather that it is at least within the realm of possibility. An easier position to put forward, especially once you've established half-truths and manipulation with regard to the aftermath. Makes a much less interesting story though.
Haha, yeah because they helped us in the war. But really, how come when we criticize France or Germany or China, people act like it's not cool, or they get defensive, or they just go into "criticize America" mode. Every country deserves to be critiqued!
