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Poll: More Americans want off world stage

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by tigermission1, Nov 27, 2005.

  1. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    To a certain extent we have. Japan's postwar Constitution, that we wrote for them, forbids them from having anything more than a homeland defense force and we've defended SK, Taiwan, many ASEAN countries and armed Pakistan. Obviously though we haven't defended the PRC, Vietnam or India and those countries are doing very well economically and making strides socially and politically on their own.


    I myself think that Japan should be allowed to re-arm and it is something many Japanese want. The US with the support of many other Asian nations are very against this fearing a new Asian arms race and Japan's militaristic past resurfacing. This is a concern but in a nuclear world and economic interdependence between Japan and the PRC they aren't very likely going to engage in a war with each other. Also Japan, the PRC, and SK realize that a nuclear NK isn't a good thing and would take steps to prevent that themselves. In regard to ASEAN they've taken steps to develop joint military cooperation and have talked about an ASEAN defense force. Like with a separate Euro defense force the US isn't very fond of the idea of ASEAN defense force because some members of ASEAN aren't that friendly to the US and the US feels that would diminish US influence in the region. So what we're seeing in Asia is that even when Asian countries want to become more independent of the US the US is resistant to that.

    Another problem with the US role in Asia is that many in Asia still resent that the US propped up dictators like Marcos and Suharto and are now helping to prop up Musharraf. Since the Vietnam war there has been a high level of distrust among many Asians regarding the US because even while the US has protected some countries like Taiwan and SK many others see the US has meddling in regional affairs to advance its own power at the locals expense.

    They might if they become a hegemon but in a multipolar world its doubtful the EU would become a hegemonic power. An EU defense force would be unlikely to be intervening in regional problems in South America or Asia.

    I will agree the hate of the US now seems much greater than before but the impression I have of it is that most of these people have always had misgivings about the US and the war in Iraq only reinforces that view.
     
  2. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Without Japan and the Four Asian Tigers earlier ascendence, I doubt the PRC or Vietnam would encourage the liberalization of their economic policies. Those five countries enjoyed a defense shield without serious investment into their defense, both economically and academically. If Taiwan or Korea engaged in a similar arms race with their respective countries as India and Pakistan had, they wouldn't be leaders on the Asian market.

    Likewise, can you really fault the US for making the Europeans weak because of the tremendous success NATO had as a regional deterrent to the USSR?

    Like in I write in some other threads, it'll only change when the US gets a good kick in the teeth.

    I truly hope these countries are as greedy as you claim them to be. Pride in Asian countries, if you haven't seen it, is sometimes stronger than economics. By all accounts Japan and China should be great economic and regional partners...so great that the squabble over a few words in some Japanese textbooks should be a petty and insignificant matter. When China sends submarines into Japan's sea borders, it's only meant as a friendly game of hide and seek. When the Japanese deny over qualified foreigners, especially Korean, into their coorporate glass ceiling (which makes Howard Stringer even more surprising), it only means that these companies haven't found outsiders who are intelligent and hard working enough.

    The US objects some pacts designed to supercede its influence, such as China-led SCO. Once China projects it regional hegemon to the point where co-prosperity obviously means sino-prosperity, the US could work the Asean defense initiative to its advantage. Perhaps by then, the American people will be too apathetic to notice.

    It's a natural response when influential powers choose a side... I never said everyone welcomes Americans in like some Wolfowitz LSD induced hallucination. I just prefer skeptical distrust to proven distrust. It lets their political leaders broader room to deal with their American allies....

    You probably think their defense force would be a paper tiger as well. Since it deals with Russia, the only regional influence it could broadly exert upon is Africa. Isn't that France's former playground?

    So they're wise enough not to claim that they're a military hegemon. They'll use the UN instead. Without the US, how much teeth does the UN have? Similarly, when will Bush and Rummy stand trial at the IOC?
     

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