Here's the problem: 1. This is Paul...not Jesus. Paul qualifies his epistles saying at points, "this is just my thoughts on this...." 2. Paul thought the second coming was imminent...in his lifetime. He makes this point over and over again. Paul was wrong. It was not imminent in his lifetime. 3. Jesus spoke very generally about wars and natural disasters being a prelude...but wars and natural disasters have always been with us. I expect to be surprised by the "when."
Sorry about that...I don't mean to derail the thread....just responded to a particular point of interest to me with relation to my faith.
Just a personal thought...no religious, political, or social background included: 1) Technically, the world can't end as easily as people predict, I mean the world or a better word is the Earth. It would take extraordinary occurence to entirely decimate the planet or split it into pieces. The Earth could survive an asteroid, solar flares, and etc...it has for over billions of years, possibly. Also, one would have question the actual existence of time and space, in which they live as well as any and everything above and beneath. That's kind hard to do, considering you don't have time machine, can't travel to other worlds (and possibly, if exist to the ends of universe), not omnipotent, not even immortal (or partially), and things similar. You can't really have an accurate perspective of the world ending or beginning. 2) Society and civilization doesn't require as much effort to end, simply because a nuclear holocaust, a few deadly virus, or a worldwide mass hysteria...maybe not the end of humanity, but civilization would take a big hit. Something, like those crazy post-apocalyptic movies or novels. Yet, this world will be out the likes of property taxes, public education, no such thing as debt, ridiculous quality of life laws (early on), urban sprawl, endless shopping spree (if stores are still left, I'm sure some women would like that), and CW and MTV shows. Already, an improvement would be on the horizon. 3) I believe the whole "Doomsday" scenario is just a scare tactic to get people to buy into some sort of ideology, a particular stance, or even get them to spend their cash or money to somehow avoid or lessen this great doom. As far as the religious or spiritual aspects, wouldn't the end of the world actually be good thing, in a way for some people. Look, if you believe in a heaven, paradise, or valhalla...wouldn't be the greatest thing in the world to leave planet or world with serial killers, poverty, terrorists, oppressive governments, corruption and Judge Judy. If everyone knew (beyond a shadow of doubt) they could go to such a place, just by dying...without judgement and no list requirements proposed by some doctrine. Wouldn't people just kill themselves, so they could get out of this horrible world. Going to the next world might mean for you no more sickness, no more suffering, total freedom, possibly more powers, no responsiblities, and etc. 4) It doesn't really matter...it's not like we'll be losing anything in the context of the universe. I mean what would you be losing, regardless of your beliefs. I
The answer to the last part is very simple: 10,000 years of progress for mankind. Yeah there would be after doomsday but it would be ugly to watch 6 billion creatures trying to make sense of their existence on one planet.
You missed the obvious dig at "science." And the notion that so many of you (you specifically as for one) talk in absolute terms as if you are the foremost aficionado on the length of Earth's existence. It's even more laughable that you actually responded to me on the blatant sarcasm.
FWIW - I lean more post-trib... And I think the Christian world has been far underserved by touting the Heaven is as important as they do... If we miss the mark HERE, if we forget to live as Christ HERE, what would it matter anyway? I just this past week reprimanded the notion that any "believer" is getting to any "Heaven" without understand the Lordship of Christ... the reason for "making disciples" is to be disciplined to the teaching and ways of Christ. It is not simply about "pie in the sky, in the sweet by and by." Live like this is the only shot you've got, according to Christ's nature and attitudes, then if Heaven is a literal place... you've scored a double bonus! The only harm in that somewhat shaded view is this... many would then say I've casted doubt on the issue of Heaven at all... This is why it must not be watered down in my estimation. I do NOT believe Jesus or the Apostles intended for so many to fixate on the rapture. But I will still strive to live my life as if it is imminent... because it does help keep me accountable. DaDakota... FWIW the "rapture" is the "raising from the dead" bit.... The "second coming" is the literal Jesus' foot touches Earth again bit... 2 very different Scriptural occasions that many, even.. and perhaps mostly.... in church circles mix up and/or combine as one event. For the record... I doubt that Revelation 4 is the rapture.
I asked you if I missed your point...how is that sarcasm? Let's just be direct then. How old do you think the earth is Iroc it? DD
BTW- all these pages and I'm disappointed no one has posted The Doors. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dbI5K0AzNHI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dbI5K0AzNHI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> A point that most of can agree on... Jim Morrison was a break though, game changing, musical artist.
I think no man can make any claim and act as if it is the certified "date." No one can answer that. None of us were there. No scientist was there. No religion was even there.
I agree that we can't know the exact date, so...give me your rough estimate then...how old do you think the Earth is? DD
I am curious to know how old you think the earth is, that is my point? Why are you ducking the question? Please give a rough estimate for how old you believe the earth to be? And just use years as a measuring stick....how many years has the earth been around?....Roughly? Thanks, DD
Dude... I have no "rough estimate" That's like asking me to give a "rough estimate" of how much liquid is in your gas tank... I wasn't privy to how/when you filled it up, how many miles you've driven.. etc. And while in my comparison I could investigate your tank's capacity, figure the mpg of your car etc... there is no way ANYONE can gather the empirical data needed to give a real HARD date answer to your question. So... turn it to yourself. What is your answer? Better yet... don't respond... we all know it is based on opinion and someone else's suggestions and theory. I on the other hand will claim to know, or make a claim based on other people's info or suggestions. When I don't know the answer, I don't guess and act as if I do. Why is that so hard to get? Some of us don't have to win every argument, or try and cast aspersions on someone else for having an opinion. If you have a guess, then fine. I don't claim to have one. No idea. This just in though.... the earth is older than mankind. Happy?
