Rockets2K, I agree with your post, but you are talking about pack dynamics within your family. What about strangers? There seems to be instincts (or learned behavior) of some dogs to be just as thrilled to meet one human over another, whereas some dogs instinctively remain guarded with strangers. For instance, Daschun's and Russell terriers have a tendency to always guard their perimeter and many small breeds will snap at strangers, like Behad's sweet girl will, no matter how long you hang out with him on his back porch eating bbq. Do you think this has anything to do with improper training to not teach the dog their role in the pack? I don't know, so I'm asking. Seems like the pack training only exists in a small circle of what is familiar to the dog. Seems like you can socialize a dog at an early age to know strangers (take them to dog parks, etc), but it also seems like some breeds are just more trusting than others.
If you want to believe that the only way a dog can show aggressive behavior toward a person is if it is the 'alpha', then please do so. My experience has shown me this is not always going to be the case. I said I don't like getting into the technical mumbo-jumbo. I didn't say I discounted or didn't believe what they were saying. There is a difference. Just like there is a difference between what your posting from articles and what I'm saying. But, I guess my point is not taken. So, believe what you want. A DOG HAS TO BE ALPHA TO SHOW AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR TOWARD OTHER PACK MEMBERS...HUMAN OR OTHERWISE. CIRCUMSTANCES DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT WHATSOEVER. There you go. I don't believe it, though.
I really don't feel qualified to say whether or not their actions are more a function of their breed or training. I have never had either breed nor have I known anyone that did. I do however feel that a dog that has been trained to not be aggressive and has been familiarized to strangers from an early age will be a dog that is less likely to react negatively towards people. I have always heard that there are breeds that are naturally less friendly than others, however I'm not totally convinced that this can't be fixed by proper training.. The tendency to be territorial is imo a combined function of how they are trained and the tendencies of the breed. My dog(a Sheltie) is very protective of it's turf(our property) but will be very friendly and non threatening when outside the house..Shelties are known for being friendly, intelligent dogs and I have trained him to not be aggressive to people that are guests in our house. When I have people come by, he will bark and act all tough until I order him to back off...at which point he backs off...but be warned, if you pet him, he won't leave you alone!(he's a sucker for someone to scratch him behind his ears and give him attention.. ). As further evidence of the importance of training, I have a friend that is a huge rotweiler fan, he always has at least 2 around the house at all times. He also trained them himself, and if you come up and they don't know you or haven't been "introduced" to them by their master...they are very aggressive, which is my understanding, a characteristic of the breed. Once you have been properly introduced by their master...they are friendly, personable dogs..Your biggest problem with them will be getting them to quit rubbing against your hands for some petting.. Same goes for another friend of mine that owns a rather large German Shepard...very, very friendly once their owner has let her know that you are accepted at their house. But you don't want to be sneaking into their house at night or when their owner isn't home. Surf, The dog doesn't have to be "alpha" to be aggressive, they only need to feel they are further up the "seniority ranking" than the person they are being aggressive towards... A dog will almost never be aggressive towards a person that is higher ranking(in it's mind) than it is...It relates to the dog's "wolf-pack" mentality.
Another expert? Yes...and that is what I'm disputing. I'm saying there are circumstances where a dog can be touched off and misbehave toward someone higher ranking in the pack...such as if your disturbing their sleep pattern. I'm also saying I've experienced it. So, sue me.
Whoa hoss...no need to *snap* at me... I never put myself forward as an "expert", mearly as someone who has worked(for a short time) in the field with a professional trainer... I did not say that it never happens...I said it doesn't normally happen with proper training..nothing more..
Sorry and I agree. To recap, DVauthrin made a point that his dog may snap "... because she is comfortable and we try moving her around." I basically agree with that statement. Cohen made the case that it he thinks it could be because the dog thinks it is the 'alpha' of the pack. I came in and tried to identify by example with DVauthrin that I believe it is not necessarily because the dog thinks it is the 'alpha' or because of the 'wolf pack' mentality. I know that these things explain a great deal about a dog's behavior in a pack setting. I believe that these things won't always explain why a dog snaps. By snaps, it could be something from harmless growling to snap to a quick bite but I don't take that in the context of bite my arm and not let go until it is gnawed off. Like DVauthrin said, I believe a dog can snap because it is comfortable and doesn't want to be bothered. In my case, my dog(s) have their spots on the sofa where they hang and sleep. If I want them to move, then I command them to move off or I give them a nudge. If I try to physically move the dog while it is resting or if it is asleep, then the dog can snap like that. So, in conclusion, I think circumstances can cause a dog to snap that are aside from 'alpha' behavior or 'wolf pack' mentality. No big whoop. I've seen a lot of the pack mentality between my two dogs so I know that type of behavior well. I have read the books, too. I think you have to evaluate why a dog snaps to it's own pack members...whether human or another dog...on a case by case basis and cannot say definitively that it is because the dog thinks its alpha or is trying to challenge their hierarchy status exhibiting 'wolf pack' mentality. A dog may just not want to be bothered at that moment or wasn't ready to be moved. If either of my dogs is asleep and I try to physically move them, then their initial reaction will be a snap which usually constitutes a growl. I don't believe that necessarily means they think their alpha or are challenging the pack hierarchy. It could be a dog just reacting to the situation. I am no expert, either. But, I am very close to my dogs and know their behavior well. Ridgebacks are different and a little more extreme from other dogs, however, so they may not be a good indicator. Hell...they used these dogs to hunt lions in Africa and I have two of them for pets. LOL. Edit: Also, this is a bit off-topic since the troopers were being approached by a dog that was not in their pack. I think it can be difficult to determine how it's going to react if it sees members of its pack threatened. A dog approaching officers who have pack members cuffed and on the ground may cause a seemingly well-behaved dog to "go off". I still think the officers used excessive force, didn't listen and shut the doors when they had a chance, and should be on unpaid leave...then fired...then sued. But, that's me. It wouldn't surprise me if one of my seemingly well-behaved dogs and I went to the park, I got in a fight with someone and my dogs were loose, and they tried to help out with some aggressive behavior which I had never seen before. Just like all the stories of how dogs saved their owners in various situations, like the dog out on a hunting trip with its owner and the owner suffered a heart attack. The dog then dragged the owner all the way back to their house so the owner could get help. Who knows what dogs might do when the pack is threatened? Hard to call. Obviously, many things may factor into a dog's behavior in different threatening scenarios, from genetic traits to how the dog was raised to doggy confidence.
Aaaahhh! Surfguy might be rabid! Where's my SHOTGUN! I am so scared! If only we had left him in the backseat like his family asked us to!
FRICKEN PATHETIC !!! And the police wonder why they lose respect all the time. A lot of them go power mad, and consider everyone a "perp" or is out to get them. I have 4 friends from school who are cops and 3 of them are complete jerks now....only one of them remained true and is untainted by it all. Police are out of control in my opinion. They serve a purpose, but seem to not realize that it was this man and his family that PAY HIS FRICKEN SALARY !!!! He should not have killed that dog, and they should have shut the doors as the family asked. Crap like this makes me respect police less and less. DD
Just for the record, snapping(biting) incidents are very, very rare with our dog. She knows who is the head of the family and all. As she became an adult(8), it became slightly more common(still very rare), but that makes sense, she has lived with us for her entire life except for a few weeks as a puppy, and particularly our house the last 6 years(we moved right around getting her). So she has her spots and places she wants to be, just like I feel at home in the study on the computer. Like I said, have a complete stranger come up to our door, our dog "barks" because she hears the loud noise, and then she will run up to him or her, sniff them, and just sit there to be petted. Since, this seems to be a good time to ask this, do most of your dogs hate fireworks? Ours does anything to hide those nights, and I know they have more sensitive ears than us. Just thought I would ask.
Just as my dogs snapping incidents are very rare . Of course, I can force the issue and make them snap. Yes, my dogs are very scared of loud noises associated with fireworks and flashes and loud noises associated with lightning and thunder. I've never seen a dog that wasn't afraid of these things. Do they exist?
Here is another story that just makes you shake your head in disbelief and makes you angry. I didn't know you didn't have much of a brain left at 74 years old.
My only comment is that in 24.5 years I've never had an encounter with a police officer where they didn't harass me, arrest me, or act belligerent when they couldn't come up with some BS charge to pin on me. I hate cops.
Absoulute B.S. If the Dog approached the officer than I understand but he wasnt. He should have waited to see if he was a harm. dude has a freaking gun!! and hes acting like a freaking insert your word ______. Even if the Dog suddenly comes out of no where dude still has a gun I can take out Bear I'm sure he can take out a puppy dog if suddenly attacked
If you have a fenced yard...no, you don't need a leash on him. To say that "dogs" aren't violent creatures is a gross understatement. IF they have the potential to be violent (which they do) they also have the potenital to be "violent creatures". <B>IF</b> you were to be walking your dog (assuming that it is a bigger sized dog) and it came running up to me when you are an irresponsible owner and don't have him on the leash, and I feel threatened in anyway <b>I wouldn't hesitate to kill it</b> with any weapon on me. <b>And</b> if a dog was to run up to me (when the irresponsible owner chooses not be ignorant and feel that he is Doolittle and knows what an animal is saying/feeling) when I was on a walk with my baby sister and was to feel threatened for either me or my sister I would kill it and take the owner to court.
A) We do not have a fence in our front yard B) You obviously have never had a dog I mean come on, what the heck do you consider threatened? I'm not being rude, but you sound exactly like this cop who killed this innocent animal. Some dogs are more violent than others, but for you to say all are violent, you are incorrect, my family knows how our dog acts, and she doesnt need a leash if we take her outside to our front yard or the neighbors yard to do her business. Of course on longer distances we use a leash, but geez, you make it sound like if it gets near you, and doesnt growl, just wags its tail and wants attention, that you would seriously kill it. And ours does just want to be petted, it will not try and bite strangers, as I described earlier in this thread. That saddens me, but what the heck, I am a dog owner. Now I will admit, I hate my aunt's dog, and avoid it(no I won't kill it) but all in all I like dogs. It just sounds like you had a bad experience with them as a kid, and have a serious problem dealing with dogs now.
This story makes me sick to my stomach. If that were my dog, they would have had to put a bullet in me too. I'm shocked that anyone could be capable of something as wretched as this. But at the same time, when I heard some cops were involved, I wasn't surprised. Sad to say, but I feel more threatened than protected by our "finest." Too many of them aren't driven by a desire to "serve and protect," but by a sadistic need to terrorize and abuse power.
I only saw the webcast edition of the video (the Today Show had it on, but I had to go to school) and from what I could see the officer wasn't watching the dog the whole time..from when he runs out till to him. If I saw a dog run towards me I would react and I support the officer even more after seeing the webcast. First, I said that all dogs have a POTENTIAL to be violent. Good you know how your dog acts. So how does it think...what about...what I am trying to say is that YOU DO NOT KNOW YOUR DOG. You can believe that you do, butyou don't, just like I don't know your dog. <b>Good</b> this brings up a good example. Lets say that I am your neighbor...I get mad about you being an irresponsible owner by letting your dog **** on my lawn. So...I come out..still on my lawn.. and deside I'm going to give you what you deserve and b**** the crap out of you. Your dog sees me yelling at you... Since you can appearanlty positively read your dog's mind <b>what would he do</b>? IF I am on public property and a dog comes running at me and I feel threatened for any reason I would do what I feel necessary. The point that I am trying to make is that just like a relationship with another human, you may think that you know them [dog or human]...but you don't. Someone mentioned their friends became cops and then jerks. Was he to know that they would become jerks? I would say no b/c I doubht he would want to hang out with jerks. A leash should always be used to control your dogs...In a post it was said that the dog is part of the family. What if your dog senses thast you are upset with someone? As a vital part of your family I think that they would get on in their and defend you. I find it sickening that (this is only an opinion that is probably overlooking a whole lot, but anyways) people are looking at the police to being corrupt. A number of 20% was mentioned above... do you truthfully believe that? If you do you're going to put the cop that killed the dog and 20% of all cops a folder of your mind. So by now you believe that ONE IN FIVE OFFICERS ARE CORRUPTD, RACIALLY-PROFILING, RODNEY KING BEATING, WOMEN-RAPING, DOG KILLERS. I have great respect for the police. It seems like I may be in the same minority of good oficers in your opinion. If I was part of the PD that the officer was in I would say that what happened hat happened turned out bed, but the officers were under surious suspisions in which the officers should feel like they have to defend themselves and to know that a dog who none of the officers was in aquaintance with, can harm them.
