I dunno dude. I'm sure you have a valid point, as do all the vegetarians out there. But all this heavy discussion's got me hungry. Hungry for this... and this AND THIS!!!! hungry-t-rexSAGE
cows are not smart animals... however, I can see you having issues with slaughterhouse practices in the US
Make no mistake, we are driving to California right after Christmas and the first thing I am going to eat is a nice juicy In-N-Out Double Double with grilled onions!
Your semantics argument is pretty damn true. Actually you can extend this to a lot of things we do. Not to mention when one sees beef, they see beef not a cow. We in many ways have become divorced from what we are eating. Let me start by saying that I am a vegetarian but I have zero issue with most meat. I stopped in 9th grade when I bet a friend 20 bucks that I could go for 2 months. It was pretty easy because my Mom was already a vegetarian and so everything I ate at home was already vegetarian. That being said, the argument does go both ways. We cant just essentialize all animals as the same. We can all acknowledge distinctions. We step on ants, we kill mosquitos without conscience. But many are concerned about chickens. In my mind there is zero fundamental difference between the two. Chickens can express emotion but their emotion is no difference than a mosquito. Both species act on pure instinct alone. it's just that we can hear a chicken and can't hear an ant. A chicken can better express an instinctive response than an ant. In my opinion, the brightline is sentience. An animal that is sentient (i.e. can make a judgement beyond pure instinct) is the only category that the animal rights argument extends to. A dolphin can make an emotional bond with a person beyond the scope of pure instinct. Same with a horse. These animals are capable of actual thinking rather than pre-wired responses to different situations. Now the level of sentience increases as we go up the tree of animals but there is a brightline between sentience and I suppose a pig might be capable of some emotional response but it is so little that I'd group it with an ant. It's largely an animal driven by pure instinct. And consequently people shouldnt value it any more than an ant unless we plan on valuing everything equally. That being said I'm still a vegetarian because I believe there are environmental consequences to the meat industry and the animal cruelty argument still resonates with me even though I just stated that chickens are no different than ants. But in my opinion being a vegetarian is like religion, its a personal choice that requires no justification. Anyway I'm done blabbing.
Very nice points geeimsobored. I agree with most of what you said. Animals do seem to act on mostly instinct alone, but the responses we get from those that are "cute and cuddly" may be harping on our own emotions more than what the animals actually "feel" This is what I hoped this thread would do, inform and educate (as well as create a bit of a spark, lord knows the hangout needs it) Keep it coming guys.
Is her reasoning for becoming a vegetarian because of animal cruelty or because she thinks its wrong to eat animals? You could slaughter your own livestock...in front of her. Seriously, animals are tasty...why stop eating them?
#1) She is worried about a history of health problems in her family attributed to being overweight, she thinks eating vegetarian meals helps her to stay healthy and avoid problems down the road. I agree with her 100% on this. #2) She recently became aware of just how horrifically a lot of animals are treated and slaughtered in America. I think she believes we should hold ourselves to a higher standard and be better caretakers of animals. If they would be slaughtered in more humane conditions, she would probably loosen her stance on never eating meat again.
Yeah, I see nothing wrong with eating fish whatsoever. You pull them out of sea, you can't hear them scream. They taste mighty delicious and are filled with Omega 3 fatty acids which are natural amino acids that promote a healthy heart. Jesus chowed down on a fish. If it was good enough for God himself, its good enough for me.
Meat production subjects people to starvation. Cows that are fed with corn (all the cows in concentrated feeding operations in the US, aka all the cows that are not pasture fed) require a lot more corn input than what they output in meat calories. The exact number is that it takes 6 pounds of corn to produce 1 pound of beef. (Chickens and pigs and all other livestock in concentrated feeding operations are fed corn.) So meat production greatly increases the demand for corn, as it requires so much. Basic economics tells us that increased demand = increased price. Corn is a staple of many poor people, especially in sub-Saharan Africa (poorest place on earth) where it is THE staple. These poor people can't afford higher corn prices, but that's exactly what they're getting as a result of greater and greater worldwide demand for meat. So if you don't care about animals being treated cruelly, fine. (But I think you should, because it's truly deplorable). But maybe you care about the treatment of humans, and if you don't like the idea of them starving, do your part and quit eating meat...or at least make the effort to only eat free range pasture fed animals. Also, meat production is REALLY ****ty for the environment, and accounts for more carbon emissions in the United States than transportation (including cars) does.
Yeah I was going to mention but forgot, if you need any motivation for not becoming a vegetarian, it's that I am one!
Buy her a fur coat and a dildo for Christmas. If she doesn't like the coat she can go **** herself. (it's a joke)
Moe, you know that I love you and I feel sorry for your situation, but you're so wrong here. That'd be like saying the Rockets only get 4 bounces to move the ball 10 yards and they cannot touch the ball with their hands during their games. Omega 3 fatty acids are just fats that, in small amounts, are pretty essential for growth and development. Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins, not fat. The fish will give you both, however. Grass-fed livestock is a good source as well. EAT TO YOUR HEARTS CONTENT!
