1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Playing Off The Ball

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Rocket River, Jan 10, 2021.

  1. denniscd

    denniscd Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2003
    Messages:
    1,122
    Likes Received:
    26
    rocket river is right once again. harden needs the ball more not less. simple
     
    Rocket River likes this.
  2. denniscd

    denniscd Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2003
    Messages:
    1,122
    Likes Received:
    26
    go back to iso ball and switching on defense. its proven effective for this group. when/if harden is traded then make the changes you want
     
  3. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    20,386
    Likes Received:
    16,554
    Our new way straight up sucks though. Why should be keep playing this way when all we do is lose games. Makes no sense. How about let's try a way that wins games instead of losing games.

    I like we are at the point where we are worried about getting stomped in the second round when we are on track to not make the playoffs. We also have a OKC swap this year which means we need to at least win more games than them, right now we are not.
     
    HP3 and Rocket River like this.
  4. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    20,999
    Likes Received:
    12,873
    The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

    Like I said, there is no magic bullet. This is not a team built for ISO and its possible we don't make the playoffs regardless. As I said, "maybe over perform to get stomped in the second round". I'm not sure that will be all the different than not making the playoffs to Harden.

    In hindsight, we should have tried our best to convince Harden to party and punt this shortened season. Bringing in Wall was a mistake.
     
  5. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    61,678
    Likes Received:
    29,080
    Funny thing is . .. . BEAL and McCollum are the right type of players
    They are EXTRAORDINARILY Good .. . but have the temperment to not get caught up in extra stuff

    In Fact .. Beal and McCollum would beat the **** out of Lillard and Westbrook/Wall


    Harden is better at just about everything than Wall.
    He is our best player. He should run the offense.
    That Said. . . . .what is worse how bad other players are with the ball.

    Remove Harden from the equation
    Who are our best dribble Drivers?
    Wall - best to score - assist second
    EGo - Very Erratic looking bully ball dribbling. Passing out of his dribble is an adventure
    House- 50/50 Score or turnover off the dribble - I dunno If I have seen him assist off the dribble
    BMac - Probably a better scorer than house but not the great passer off the dribble.
    Who Else?



    Rocket River
     
    #185 Rocket River, Jan 12, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
    Stephen_A likes this.
  6. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    61,678
    Likes Received:
    29,080
    Harden commits some turnovers trying to force some passes . .. .esp to Wood
    The Defense sees it coming. . .alot of time he can thread the needle but some is just too risky
    esp if Wood is bumped off his spot . . .which bigs can do easily and the refs won't call it

    Rocket River
     
  7. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    5,581
    Likes Received:
    4,185
    Yeah, we still generated open shots but we missed them. The new system doesn't fix missing open shots.

    That's my point, what we've seen so far is still dependent on the same things as past years. The only difference is who delivers the pass.
     
    HP3 likes this.
  8. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    5,581
    Likes Received:
    4,185
    You can debate how successful we can be but regardless, we are still more efficient running iso than what we are doing.

    No matter what you think our potential may be. You still try to do what gives you the best chance.

    Currently we are producing the same type of shots just in a less efficient manner. How does that help?
     
    HP3 likes this.
  9. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    35,234
    Likes Received:
    24,274
    Sorry to have to inform you the bad news. We don't have Chris Paul now.
     
    dmoneybangbang likes this.
  10. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    35,234
    Likes Received:
    24,274
    Well, if the Rockets' goal is just to win regular season games, then go ahead and enjoy them.

    Most teams that have chances to make the playoffs use the regular season to prepare for the playoffs.
     
    dmoneybangbang likes this.
  11. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    20,999
    Likes Received:
    12,873
    That is one philosophy. FOs/coaches like Pop, Nurse, and Spoelstra use the regular season differently.

    Short term vs long term success.

    I think it's a moot point based off Harden, but I'd rather try something different.
     
  12. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    89,749
    Likes Received:
    43,232
    Doubt that very much this season.

    The goal is not to embarrass themselves......the real goal.

    In face of the Covid situation, I think all records should be closer to 0.500 as teams would lose games because half their roster is missing.

    And few teams are enjoying anything.

    The Rockets are fighting for consistency yet again.
     
    #192 daywalker02, Jan 12, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
    Easy likes this.
  13. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    35,234
    Likes Received:
    24,274
    I have no problem with Harden playing ISO. Just like I have no problem with shooting lots of 3s. What I have problem with is using them as our ONLY offensive strategy simply because Harden is good at generating it. I don't see how bringing more variety to the team is a bad thing. Harden is totally capable of thriving in non-iso plays.
     
    Stephen_A likes this.
  14. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    35,234
    Likes Received:
    24,274
    Again, I don't have the numbers to check how open they were in the playoffs compared to the regular season. It seemed to me that doubling Harden not only greatly interrupted our offense but also generated turnovers. I guess that's what needs to be fixed.

    Who delivers the pass determines who receives the pass. If Harden is the passer, he is not the shooter. When Harden is the sole creator for the whole team, then he has to both score and facilitate. He has been doing that very well. But when the opponent focuses on stopping his scoring, then he has to pass to other players and they aren't great shooters even when they are open.

    I just think that having some variety in the offense would make Harden's game--and thus the whole team's game--easier, not harder.
     
  15. coachbadlee

    coachbadlee Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2010
    Messages:
    28,051
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    The 2020-21 NBA season will forever be remembered as the season Harden and Westbrook got exposed.
     
  16. HP3

    HP3 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2018
    Messages:
    22,869
    Likes Received:
    32,140
    Sorry to inform you but that doesn’t mean our system was wrong it just means we needed actual talent on the roster. What we are doing now is just u guys giving “its not MDA and Morey” it had to work o_O
     
  17. HP3

    HP3 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2018
    Messages:
    22,869
    Likes Received:
    32,140
    Iyou act like we didn’t have playoff success either???
     
  18. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    35,234
    Likes Received:
    24,274
    Who said that? I didn't.

    I think MDA, Morey, Harden, and most of all Tilman should all share the blame. It's you Harden fans always blame everyone except Harden.
     
  19. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    11,018
    Likes Received:
    12,000
    But at our peak we as a team only isolated about 20% of our possessions...
     
    HP3 likes this.
  20. HP3

    HP3 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2018
    Messages:
    22,869
    Likes Received:
    32,140
    Why do they share blame? They maximized what they had and usually won way more than they lose. Im a Rockets fan....when James Harden starts tanking our offense I will blame him and have blamed him. But so far w are talking about "Harden off ball" like it has some significant impact on wether we lose games or not. I dont believe that to be the case.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now