not only that, not only his value to us as a leader, but even his value as a contract. As some mentioned, I'm fine with making tough decisiosn and changing talent, but we let him go for nothing. we could've traded him like the suns could've, we could've kept his contract in play and at the VERY worst situation, we had a one year bad deal. no future ramifications, best case we are ablt to trade or we have good injury luck and win. bucks looked hopeless last year, the mvp got swpet. Thsi year they were a hair away from losing to the nets, Giannis was seen as a free throw choker, but low and behold, basketall ain't an exact predictable science and things went their way and they got a ring. You can't guarantee rings in the nba, you just have to take a swing and have the combination of luck, opportunity, health, timing and magic can happen....or you can say lets safe the owner money and feel good, Bucks could've said we arent winning till giannis adapts his free throws or we can't beat the nets yada yada, they paid up, they wil be paying big for years to come. No one regrets the chip. Cavs paid for years after lebron left, but htey made history...I guess ita ll depends if you are a win at all cost or go for it franchise and accept what happens or if you are I'll win if the money is write type of thing. ITs an odd thing for me, fans don't see the cash, we get prices raised on us but they are all screaming to save tilman money as if ariza isn't worth it when hes a one year cost...I can't imagine bucks fans pissed off bc they traded for tucker or warriors fans angry that they got kelly oubre on a one yeard deal bc we don't want to hurt joe lacobs pockets..lol the nba owner benefits greatly and only has one thing to offer, finances during contention. thats it.they reap all the nejoyment of this showcase asset, yet in houston apparently we want to make sure our billionaires are treated good even while they raise the prices as much as they can on you, you know its just business when they do it
Here's the problem. You're describing him as a veteran leader with a mentorship role. That's fine; that's what Udonis Haslem is. However, Haslem gets paid the minimum. With us, didn't Tucker want an extension that was $24m/2 years fully guaranteed?
Haslem also doesn't play. Tucker does. What I'm saying is that statistical analysis on tucker perhaps isn't updated to measure what he does. REmember these analystics are fluid, because the more data we can process, the more ability to process new types of data and measurements, and things we didn't know should or could be measures let alone his impact on other players, his physicality, but theres something taht almost every coach continues to play him big minutes and it aint for his buckets. You can get deflections, you can make the offense work as hard and you can do all that without even registerring a steal or block or something shows. Its like battier said about kobe, he isn't stopping him or showing to have better stats, in the nba you just make them work as hard as possible. You also can't quantify the impact of his motor on the court and the way he competes. Lakers players were talking about kobe and how he wasnt' a traditional uplfiting leader, he was the guy who set the culture with his intensity. Every practice, every time on the courty ouknew how he was going to compete and that raises the bar for everyone and is infectuous. thats why Harden and paul have also called out tucker as has MDA morey and anyone who sees his value. It is all hard to qunatify, I don't believe he does it like haslem or maybe heat have teh benefit of a lifer they can pay the minimum .the point is those add a lot of value to the team and its worth paying. IF you ca get it at hte minimum, do it. if you have to pay tucker 12 million for a year or two, rather then lose that value for nothing in a league that is worth billions and the revenue is 100s of millions, yes swallow that cost IF you are trying to compete, if the agenda is to be like the pacers and just be mediocre and do the best for the best financial deal then I geuss we can treat it that way and route for itlmans savings. But one/2 year premiums to run it back where you'll make the money back in a year or two anyway is to me a no brainer or at least replace it with talent. Don't get worse. Thats why its a billionaires league and the buy in and the spending is only getting higher, we'll just fall behind and hope for luck otherwise imo. So yea, I think bucks will pay up, they are a small market team spending HUGE money They have 10 million more in Salary next year BEFORE what they do with Tucker and PORTIS. I suspect theyll spend. Giannis make tehm a wild amount of money, like curry does for the warriors, take advantage of that time or i guess marc larsy can cut Tucker for nothing, amybe even portis or other depth and then take the mike after they fall short next year and say these guys need to learn a fighting culture and i'll do that for you guys...lol can you imagine? and we got a fan base rooting for that junk, even cuban's obnoxious personality doesn't do that. I think its dolan and Sterling in cringeworthy foot in the mouth moments that are at tilman's level
...yeah but I think it's an assumption that there was something particularly exceptional about the Warriors owners' planning and vision. He's a venture capitalist - he had access to enough money to allow them to opportunity to execute an ambitious plan to build a team owned arena there. Big spend, but also bigger revenue to offset it. By virtue of having gobs of money to invest in the San Francisco metro area, his investment had a much higher potential ceiling. If he owned let's say the Spurs, the ceiling for profits would have been much lower for building a new arena in San Antonio forcing him to make compromises with team payroll that he doesn't have to make while raking in the profits of owning a team in Oakland(and also probably not as many willing private investors). I mean look at the Knicks - they may be the most poorly run organization of the last 15+ years and yet google just told me this: "The Golden State Warriors and the New York Knicks were the NBA franchises that generated the most revenue, with 474 million U.S. dollars and 421 million U.S. dollars in revenue respectively. The New York Knicks are also the most valuable franchise out of the 30 teams of the National Basketball Association (NBA)." ....by the way, I'm not making an argument for Tillman's virtue - just pointing out the rules for the Warriors, Lakers, Knicks, etc are not the same rules that can be applied to small market teams. Regarding Ariza's deal - I was under the impression the sticking point with the Ariza negotiations wasn't the one year aspect - it was the presence of whether there was a "team option" or a "player option" for a 2nd year. I can certainly see how notoriously asset negative averse Morey would have balked at giving Ariza that control of the team's flexibility with a player option. Hindsight is 20/20, but I get it....the problem with the Ariza signing was more about the opportunities to replace him - as I recall the backup options for Ariza all disappeared pretty quickly in the FA market and the trade targets Morey may have had a shot at also fell through leaving Houston without a compensating person in terms of on court statistical value OR leadership value so Houston gambled on James Ennis and the corpse of Carmelo Anthony. They didn't get the leadership from Melo that they hoped and Ennis at least once a game made me ask out loud whether he just learned to play basketball that year.
as far as Ariza has publicly said, he and hte team wanted to run it back but he got a call from morey at FA saying they won't be offering anything. Simple as that, he took a one year deal, we had his bird rights and more so he wanted to run it back with us, PAul and Harden wanted him back...worse off is that we replaced him with almost nothing, bc who we did replace him with we traded while they played for savings. Yea our replacements were bottom of the barrel minimums, thats the point of the contract assets to have flexiblity and like suns taht year we had a chance AT LEAST to get kelly oubre or something else, we also had first round picks in tow...but wnat to take a guess what we did with those? Yea we traded for savings with knights contract...want to guess what mr business book, tilman said? HE doesnt know how we got under the tax, it was an accident( go check how many teams accidently give up a first rounder and dont know how they got under the tax) As far as tax, you make good points with Warriors...what about the bucks though? Wat about the nuggets, Jazz? what about Thunder? Nba is only getting more expensive, the Tv deal changes that. Houston is the 4th biggest metro market and at least we HAD an inn with teh chinese market lol, but really its just abou that window of contention, I don't think anyone cares or is complaining if tilman is saving money, he can do what he wants now that the burn down has taken place: " And that was the one thing that Morey never really had. According to the cap numbers at Spotrac, which go back to the 2010-11 season, the Rockets barely went over the luxury tax (just $3.65 million over) in their one season (2015-16) as a taxpayer. The Warriors spent $49.63 million in penalties over the last five seasons, while even the small-market Thunder spent $33.73 million. There was no excuse for Houston to not open up the checkbook. This is a franchise located in the fourth-biggest metro area in the U.S. that has had a superstar in the prime of his career. Alexander sat on his hands while Houston’s rivals went all in, counting on Morey’s ability to use advanced statistics to turn water into wine. This refusal to spend money became farcical once Alexander sold the team to Tilman Fertitta in 2017. Fertitta spent so much money ($2.2 billion) to purchase the Rockets that he may not have had the liquidity to go into the red to build a title contender. Houston was a laughingstock around the league for the amount of juggling it had to do to stay under the tax. The best example came at the trade deadline last season, when Morey used a future first-round pick to shed the salaries of Brandon Knight and Marquese Chriss. There was no basketball reason for the move. It was just done to cut costs. It’s not that Knight and Chriss would have helped the Rockets. But there were certainly a lot of better things that Morey could have used that pick for. Houston also spent that season in a bizarre staring contest with Danuel House Jr. House is the kind of diamond in the rough that Morey routinely uncovered in Houston, an undrafted free agent on a two-way contract who would become a starting-caliber wing. The problem was that players on those deals can spend only 45 days with the NBA team during the season before their contracts have to be converted. Money in Houston was so tight that Morey had to send House back to the G League when he wouldn’t sign a below-market long-term deal. He replaced House with two players he signed off the street (Gerald Green and Kenneth Faried) before bringing him back right before the playoffs. It’s not like House was asking for the world. He signed a three-year, $11 million contract in the offseason. But even that was more than Morey could offer at the time. Houston’s limited financial flexibility became an even bigger issue last season after the trade for Westbrook. With the team’s two best players costing a combined $76.7 million, it became almost impossible for Morey to fill out the roster while staying under the luxury tax. Morey and head coach Mike D’Antoni had to conjure up production from players other teams didn’t want. Jeff Green went from being cut by the Jazz to being a crucial piece of the Rockets’ small-ball attack in the playoffs. It was the same story with Austin Rivers, who had been on three teams in five seasons before landing in Houston, and Ben McLemore, who had one foot out of the NBA before the Rockets turned him into a 3-point sniper. All were more valuable in Houston than anywhere else in the league because Morey identified what they could do well and put them in roles that didn’t ask them to do much else."
Like I said - you are preaching to the choir. I'm not making any argument for the virtue of Fertita as our owner. The reality of the situation is, Tillman probably stretched himself too thin to purchase the team and his refusal to be buoyed by minority investors placed him in a different class of owner than the average team. Plus as an owner you have different expectations for a team depending on what additional revenue generating assets you have to leverage. My understanding is Tillman placed most of his assets into the value of the franchise meaning he has a different set of expectation on his profit margin from this team...while maybe a Steve Ballmer has a more diversified portfolio meaning the expectations for revenue generation for his passion project aren't as critical(hence he can afford to operate at less of a profit and thus go deeper over the cap). Also, the concept of large and small market is probably an outdate term - Joe Lacob probably could have built 4 arenas in the Houston area with what it cost for him to build one in Oakland even though they are both "larger markets"....but yeah - I'm on the same page as you mostly - I have just moved on from the Tillman sucks argument because it's kind of already been beat to death around here. I will say long term, this will probably work out very favorably for Fertita but it sucks for fans of the franchise in the short term.
No i get your logic, you're understnading why tilman is this way. I don't blame the guy, but at this point we're in a situation where we're praying for the benevolence of some guy or hoping his business works meanwhile the new age owners like balmer and the nets guy are spending big, jazz spending big, milwaukee spending big, heck even the suns are now.... so I "get ' what hes going through, but as a houstonian im paying more yearly and hes raised prices on our company for seats while making a worse product and then lying to my face abotu the sequence. He just doesn't help himself on how much he lies, deflects, and bullshits people maybe as much as any owner we 've seen. Hell its like a dollar value dolan, same ego maniac, but won't spend. Yea I agree, I think this is all great for the fertitta family, and normally here in america I'm all about go get that bag, but in this case when i'm not rooting for the Landry's company, I'm rooting for the houston rockets and this dude just oversaw the fastest burn down I've seen in the league. Anytways, I still think adn hope maybe stupidly that he will learn the next go around, hell thats all i can do. but I'm not going to lie about what has happened. Mistakes are made, do better Fertitto and you can enjoy that tv money any ways soon enough. You are right, he bought in at the peak, and hes the most overleveraged owner in the league, his stupidity or risk shouldn't be at a cost to houstonians though
Part of me thinks PJ would take a job if he had a full time clothing designer assigned to him. Dude's fashion game is strong
They couldn’t even play .250 ball lmao. It wasn’t all tanking, this franchise is just garbage right now…and it starts with ownership.
not surprised here bump. vet min LOL Shams Charania on Twitter: "PJ Tucker is signing a two-year, $15 million deal with Miami, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium." / Twitter Bobby Marks on Twitter: "As @IraHeatBeat points out, Miami can increase his salary next year from $7.35M to $8.4M in a new contract. Because of the Over 38 rule, the maximum length in years is 3. The market for Tucker is in the $8-10M range but remember anything north of $6.4M hard caps a team." / Twitter
MDA wore folks down with his 8 men or less rotations. Tucker should not have 30+ min avgs for an entire season guarding folks taller or heavier than he was. Any vet would look washed after that. It's cold blooded to just offer him the min after making him put all those miles behind the wheel. Warriors had a lot more faith in their player development than we ever did. I felt in those last 2 years, MDA played those same guys to spite Murry. Outside of lineups or mismatches, we lost on coaching with creativity, adjustments, or drawing plays.
Well he is a FA again.....gonna hop to a contender .....he is a shrewd biz guy getting deals at 37. DD
Sure are a lot of comments in this thread that aged hilariously. But one of the main persons just wow, vet min!!! lol
Yes, just not to the Rockets who were starting to rebuild.....his time was up here. And if Philly gives him 3 years and 30m at the age of 37, DM has lost his damned mind. DD
The NBA Draft hasn't even happened and you guys are talking about free agency? I can't handle all the moving parts, man...
Three year 30 million dollar offer by Philly ( Morey and Harden connections) is a bit of an over pay but he is still a damn good defender and has a great corner three.
