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Pitching

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by ktex, Jul 28, 2020.

  1. Redfish81

    Redfish81 Member

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    2.38 million is the answer you seek.

    Astros didn't spend money in the offseason, and they aren't going to pay for a power pitcher that no longer has the power.
     
  2. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    So how will they stay good once they trade those players?

    How long before they are good with all of the youth?
     
  3. Major

    Major Member

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    Can you name a good team that has stayed good for a long time using this strategy?
     
  4. Nook

    Nook Member

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    MLB and Crane worked out a deal where Luhnow would not be back. It was never a realistic option for Crane to keep him.... he wanted to keep him.
     
  5. Nook

    Nook Member

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    The Expos and Marlins had some degree of success doing this... but your point remains overall valid.
     
  6. Nook

    Nook Member

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    This.

    No one claimed him.

    He is nearly 30, has had one good year out of 7 and his velocity is down as a power pitcher.
     
  7. Major

    Major Member

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    I can't speak about the Expos, but I was more thinking in this modern era of baseball - that was a pretty different era in terms of how people valued prospects and also how free agents were paid. I'd argue the Marlins were never good for any extended period of time - they just bubbled up and made a couple of wild cards (and got hot to win WS), but they were never consistently any good.

    I think people get obsessed with this idea that you just stay good by recycling players, but the 2000-ish Oakland A's were the last team I can think of to make that sort of thing work, and that was nearly 20 years ago.
     
  8. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Rays. Constantly trading proven players (some good,some crappy) with 1-3 for unproven players that end up about as good if not better for 2-6 years. If they had a payroll as large as Houston, they would be more stacked.
     
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  9. Redfish81

    Redfish81 Member

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    They turned Chris Archer into Glasnow and Austin Meadows. Imagine being a Pirates fan.
     
  10. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Before that, it was trading away a year and half of Price. They still have an average shortstop producing for them and saved about 25 million.
     
  11. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    The yanks had a successful mini rebuild in the 2010s. The notion that we can keep spending money and somehow become relevant is going to work this right. We all remember the mistake the Astros of the late 2000s made with giving lee that monster contract.

    The majority of the posters on this subsection that refuse to even think of an rebuild are the same ones that will be nowhere to be found when we're losing 90+ games.
     
  12. Major

    Major Member

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    How good are the Rays, though? They've made the playoffs once in the last 6 years, and that was as a wildcard. Obviously they are hamstrung by payroll, but they aren't really an example of a good team staying good for a long time.
     
  13. Major

    Major Member

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    What key players did the Yankees trade away and use to rebuild on the fly? I know they traded Chapman, but part of their "rebuild" was that they just paid him a bunch of money the next year to get him back anyway.

    I'm not arguing that the Astros are going to be good forever. I'm questioning the notion that good teams stay good for a long time by trading away top players regularly.
     
  14. skenney1993

    skenney1993 Member

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    They got Torres from the cubs in that deal. They’ve drafted well and used the international pool to their advantage. Oh yeah, trading Andrew Miller netted them some good prospects too.
     
  15. SKYGODZ187

    SKYGODZ187 Member

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  16. SKYGODZ187

    SKYGODZ187 Member

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    I'm not saying to jump over board. But I am saying Toro can play 1st base. Move Yuli.
    And Tucker can play RF. Move Reddick.
    But the main factor to me would be Grienke back to the NL. And Brantley could get a top 5 player. Move stuff at the deadline if we are down more then 4 games. Only not just to do it. I'd also look at potential deals for Springer putting all my eggs in Straws basket in CF.
    Springer looks like CACA
     
  17. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Trading away the best closer in baseball is comparable to trading away Springer. They got 2 top 100 prospects for Chapman and had a decent haul from the Indians for Miller. The bottom line is that they knew they weren't going to win that year and they weren't afraid to cut their loses. We are never going go anywhere long term unless we get young starting pitching. If we can trade away Springer/Correa/Yuli/Brantley for TORs you do it in a heartbeat.

    Rebuild the team around Bregman/Tucker/Alvarez/Whitley(big hopeful) and start over. Rebuild for a few years while we have Tuve's monstrous contract and rebuild our image around the league.
     
    #37 astros123, Jul 31, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
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  18. HTown2017Champs

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    This. Also agree with the Rays comps, and they're who I had in mind especially since Click came from there. They do lots of wheeling and dealing, and they seem to be excellent at getting the right pieces in return, such as Archer for Glasnow/Meadows.
    No, they haven't been to the postseason that often (other than last year), but (homerism aside) they're best players aren't on par with ours.

    Keep Altuve/Bregman/Tucker/Alvarez as the long-term pieces on offense. Brantley and Springer would certainly fetch something of value, though this season with all the COVID would complicate things.
     
  19. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    The Rays play in the same division as the Red Sox and Yankees, and are still 6th in wins over the last decade. Two teams not named the Yankees, Dodgers, and Red Sox had more wins than them in the past decade. Sure, having a top 3 payroll is the top choice if the team's revenues can support it. Other than that, Rays are an excellent example of how to win games. They would have likely been in the playoffs at least 6 times in the past decade if they weren't in the AL East. Sure they had a 3-4 year period in which they were average with one stinker.

    Not being better than the Yankees and Red Sox should not be a disqualification for being good.

    Also, the Yankees are not above trading away a guy about to head to FA when they are out of it and then signing the guy they traded in the offseason. The strategy is sound when a team is out of it. Unfortunately for the pro-trade away guys this year for the Astros, the Astros will not be out of it.
     
    #39 Joe Joe, Jul 31, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
  20. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    On first point, the Astros likely have plenty of BoR young pitchers as well young relievers. Not sure if Whitley, Urquidy, James, or Javier can become a ToR pitcher.

    On second point, Astros will not be out of it this year. No reason to trade away guys when this year and next will probably be better years than the following 3.
     

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