KevC is right. T-Mac isn't that consistently double-teamed, particularly in the regular season and especially when Yao is in the line-up. Utah double-teamed Tracy so excessively because of Yao's absence, and they knew that T-Mac is virtually our only source of offense in that situation. Subsequently, they killed us. Deron only outplayed Chauncey this postseason because Utah is indubitably a weaker and much more shallow team than the Pistons, and granted, the Pistons are in the East. With Billups running that offense, with his experience as well as his teammates' experience, they're a legitimate choice to get to the Finals if not win the Finals basically each season. We don't have that. I love T-Mac, but we should learn to accept that he's not a leader, and he's definitely not the player to carry your franchise on his shoulders. I don't know the intricacies of this proposal, and it's probably nonsense, but if it's Billups/Hamilton or Billups/Prince for T-Mac, I'd do it in a heartbeat. That way, we don't have to scrap our season once one of our two star players go down, which has happened so many times before and is bound to happen again. Billups Hamilton Battier Scola Yao Nasty. What time are you going to the gym today, KevC?
I'm taking a day off. I have to go to a birthday thing. Andrew wanted to go to Starbucks later though...
i still put billups over dwill, billups is not as strong but has a quicker first step and can run the offense better higher bb iq i think
Plus, when Yao comes back that's a guaranteed double team, T-mac gets the ball and has other inside other inside options like Landry (fingers crossed) and scola. they will double team T-mac but only if his defender is weak. I don't se teams double teaming point guards.
and anyone thinking deeetroit basketball is going to give up hamilton with billups will be disappointed.
i would only give them tmac if we were able to throw in rafer, head, or bjax for billups, hamilton, and maxiell. doubt the pistons would do that though IMO, but i think tmac is more valuable than the rest of the league does. you can tell how much value he brings to the rockets, when he is on the bench, we look lost and can't seem to do anything.
Of course they care about the money. Look at franchises like the Spurs and Suns. The majority of their moves in the last few years have been about money, and yet they have continued to be successful. Most teams have avoided the luxury tax like the plague. The fact is that Billups is an old, very expensive, point guard who has at most 3 good years left. As such, the only teams that he is valuable to are those who think they can contend immediately. This limits his trade value considerably. Dumars seems to have decided that his team needs a rebuild. Not everybody would agree with that, but that seems to be the word out of Detroit. Here is what I would consider a reasonable 2-year plan for them. 1) If it becomes clear in 2008 that they can't win championship, trade Billups for expiring contracts, Landry, and 1st rounder. 2) Use remainder of 2008 season to develop A. Johnson and Stuckey. 3) Use own mid-level draft pick and Rockets pick to get 2 young players. 4) Not that many great free agents in 2009, except Deron Williams (long shot since he's restricted). 5) 2009-2010 season continue player development (this will be the most painful part). 6) 2010 sign a marquis free agent, e.g. Joe Johnson, LBJ, Nowitzki, McGrady, Wade, Bosh, Stoudemire. 2010-2011 season: Hypothetical starters - Stuckey, Hamilton, Prince, Johnson, Stoudemire. Bench: Carl Landry, Jason Maxiell, results from at least 2 mid to high draft picks. This is a strong team with all players still young enough to play well (Hamilton is the oldest at 32) and also cheap. The only player who will be expensive is Stoudemire. They would likely be able to contend for at least 4 more years, depending on whether they could find a suitable replacement for Hamilton.
why are we arguing about tracy or chauncey? you must be crazy to think chauncey is on the same level nor is he a top 15 player or top 3 PG (as a ridiculously dumb kevc stated). that means he thinks billups is better than either nash, paul, or deron? we can't even go .500 without tracy. detroit won 2 games to beat the magic in the playoffs without billups. cmon guys.
You must be right since you provide no basis to why my statement is erroneous besides "AW ***** HE MUST BE CRAAAZY!"
i watch the games. you said he's a top 3 PG. you think he's better than paul (a top 3 player in this league), deron (a clear 2nd best PG right now), and then nash. billups is not even a pure PG if you really watch how he operates with the pistons. on top of that, you said he's a top 15 player, which means he must be at least a franchise players b/c only top 10-15 players are frachise players (or around there). and he's not. dumars even said so. i don't think you're crazy, i just think you just are a stat-watcher rather than a game-watcher. you know there's a name for so-called fans like that, but i'm sure you know what that is. trust me, if dumars can trade billups ONLY for tmac, he hand bilups over plus 3 of his homes + bentleys for free and then still points back at morey and laughs in his face.
I assure you I watch plenty of games. I never said he's better than Paul. Deron is NOT clearly the #2 PG. I rank deron 4th behind Nash. I already provided why I think Billups is better than Deron (he shoots better, turns it over less while using the same amount of possessions). You have no argument for why Chauncey Billups is not a superior player except "I watch the games".
And what is so wrong with stat-watching? None of us have the time or the capabilities to watch every single game in the NBA. States provide unbiased information on ALL the games a player's ever played. Most mainstream fans' opinions are based on their limited viewing of NBA games and what the media and so-called experts say.
obviously you don't watch enough (get NBA league pass please). billups shoots 44%, deron shot 51% last yr. deron also shot around 40% from 3s, (where did you get billups shoots better? ). i don't keep stats that much and i know that if I WATCH THE GAMES. billups shot better fts. and deron controls more of utah's offense than chauncey does for detroit (IF YOU WATCH THE GAMES). 90% of what utah does runs through deron. and since you watch plenty of games, you should know billups does not control everything detroit runs. their offense is very balanced (which is why he may average less turnovers). so is that a better reason by billups is not a superior player? so my friend, apparently you haven't watched enough.
that's why they're "mainstream" fans and don't know what they're talking about. and most ESPN experts don't know jack. corey maggettee put up 22 and 6 last yr. stats-wise, he was one of the best players in the L and you would think he was an all-star if you're just a casual fan of the game. that's from the STATS. steve nash won his first MVP with stats of 14 and 11. those are not eye-popping MVP stats. but he won it b/c of his impact IN THE GAME, something you have to WATCH. get it?? stats don't tell you everything. stats don't tell you if a guy gets double teamed/triple teamed to make plays for others. maggette averaged more points than tmac last yr. who had more impact on the games? you tell me that.
Though they dont tell the whole story, stats do tell a lot. And btw, in 04-05, nash averaged 15.5 ppg, 11.5 apg, shot 50% from the field, 43% from the 3 pt line, and 89% from the ft line. not to mention he led the suns to the best record in the nba. If you looked only at these stats, would you really be surprised to learn that nash was the mvp that year? best player on the best team.....sound familiar?
I already explained why Billups shoots better than Deron... If you don't under stand what TS% is then I can't really help you...
Again, there are empirical evidence for what you're describing. Usage rate measures how much possession a player uses (responsible for the offense) and Chauncey Billups as identical usage rate as Deron. He makes more of those possessions than Deron, however, because he shoots better and turns it over less. Just because you feel like Deron is more responsible for their offense because you watched a few of their games doesn't make it so.
The only reason the Pistons can win games without Billups and we can't win without T-Mac is their depth. T-Mac and Yao are our offense, but Billups doesn't wholly hold the scoring burden for Detroit. He does effectively run that offense as a distributor and catalyst, but Stuckey also stepped up huge in the postseason; we don't have that luxury. There is no guidance and leadership when we're on the floor, and a sole, very likely injury utterly cripples us. Rafer is our PG, and we absolutely faltered without him in those first two home games against Utah. That's sad. Giving up T-Mac's apathy and inability to guide us in the playoffs for the experience and confidence of Billups and Rip/Prince would solve our issues at PG, back-up PG, and in scoring. Chauncey puts up 17 ppg, shooting at a far better percentage than T-Mac, not to mention Rip's 17 ppg or Tayshaun's 13.
For T-Mac haters, please list the players that could have carried us to a top seed in the West, minus Yao. Oh...two years in a row at that. I'll be waiting. The list will be very short. Either way, no Detroit Piston will be on it.
