Well, like t_mac1 did so very well in this thread, you can hate on LeBron for the way he went about his "decision", but you can't hate what he's done both in the regular season and playoffs. Dude went to the finals with a crappy team in 2007 (remember his 48 points against the Pistons in Game 5 of East Finals, he scored the Cavs' final 25 points and 29 of its last 30, etc). He put together crazy numbers and carried that team the past two years, when others on his team choked (read: Mo Williams).
Here we go, tmac_1...... You know, I know, and everybody else knows, that LeBron James is the Miami Heat's best player now. It's just a lot of sour grapes from everybody else that are upset that James, Wade and Chris Bosh have recreated my favorite '70s cartoon show—the Super Friends. People have to take into account that these players, for all their talent and ability, are human. Nobody can escape who they are. But we all can learn to be more than what we are if we have the right kind of environment. I agree with you, t_mac1. Lebron James, at 6'9" and 260 lbs., is perhaps the most physically impressive basketball player since Shaquille O'Neal (as a young player). LeBron can play essentially four positions for your team. He can do whatever he wants to do, whenever he wants to do it, against anybody at anytime and any place. If James wants to score the basketball, there are precious few ways to make it even difficult for him to do that. But James is an unselfish player on the court. Almost stupefyingly so, considering that nobody on the teams he played on in Cleveland proved to be anywhere near as consistent offensively as he was. LeBron has preferred to be a facilitator since he entered the league. He has steadily improved his individual game each season, but he has always been a willing and fabulous team player. Nobody in my memory could have made hustle plays like weak-side shot-blocking and transition defense into something cool and game-changing, t_mac1. Nobody since Michael Jordan, anyway. LeBron, to me, with that physical ability of his, is a guy that can get your team buckets. But what LeBron WANTS to do, is set up other players. James doesn't mind doing the dirty work—rebounding, passing, defending—basically holding the team together. He'll function better in Miami as that, alongside Wade and Bosh. Of all three of them, James is the player most capable and willing to sacrifice a great deal of his own individual offense while doing so many other things that will make the game so much easier for everybody else. It's always in your best interest as a coach or team manager, to find out what makes your players tick at this level. You have to understand their temperment, disposition, and approach to playing the game if you're going to get the most out of them and your team. Pat Riley mastered this a long time ago. The only person other than him that could have accomplished what he has this summer is Phil Jackson. Riley understands that LeBron wants to be just another player on the team. He wants to be great, but he wants to be great WITH other players. He has no interest in "making" another player great. James knows he needs other players if he's going to win, and he's never been afraid to admit such. He never, not once, questioned any of the players the Cavaliers patched around him while he was in Cleveland. He embraced them and took them as far as he could, essentially on his own. The only player whose done as much with as little as James has had in my recent memory is Hakeem Olajuwon. The only difference is that Olajuwon got a lot more help from his teammates than James did in Cleveland when it counted. It's not about player pedigrees and playoff matchups. It's about WINNING. and winning together. Everybody has wanted LeBron James to be something that he's not, because we have a very narrow view of what it is to be a great player. The Magic Johnson comparisons James garners are apropos, to me, t_mac1. But practically everybody misses the most apt similarity between the two of them: they were and are both GREAT TEAM PLAYERS. Individuality doesn't define Magic's career, and it won't define LeBron's. Sacrifice does and will, t_mac1. Being PART of great TEAMS did that for Magic, and will do that for LeBron. So what if people say it's Dwayne Wade's team or LeBron couldn't win by himself. James wants to win. He's done nothing cowardly or selfish (except for the horrid nature of his departure from Cleveland, which was about as well-planned and executed as an earthquake, by the way). James doesn't care about outside perception. He wants to win and he wants to win HIS way—with good teammates who'll help him. He has to mature as a young man (and who hasn't); but he'll gladly surrender spotlight and glory for RINGS. Good for him.
LeBron's not going to have a better career than Kobe when both have retired. In their primes.... Kobe's still better than LeBron.
right now, if you're talking about the number of rings, you're right. kobe has 5, lebron 0. but statistical dominance, lebron blows kobe out of the water.
Wow this has turned into a Kobe vs LBJ thread! But with that said, you just made everyone's point. If you consider winning better, Kobe produces wins where LBJ doesn't. obe is more fundamentaly sound, better ball handling, shooting, defense, etc. If you consider being individually better to mean putting up better numbers, LBJ is sick. Dude is a walking triple double. Its like he was created in a video game. So I think we can agree that Kobe is a better team player/winner and LBJ is a better individual player in terms of putting up stats. LBJ's stats are better than Kobe's, that is undisputed. Ariza's stats are better than battier's, and that is also undisputed.
How does LeBron not produce wins? If Kobe played with Cleveland I guess people would not be calling him a winner because he definitely would not have 1 single ring.
how come kobe couldn't produce wins from 04 to 07? maybe b/c his supporting cast was subpar? what kobe proved this year was that he could NOT do it alone. he struggled mightily in the first round and needed gasol (and he made a game winner in game 6 mind you) and others to bail him out. and dfish bailed the lakers out in game 3. and gasol bailed the lakers out in game 7 of the finals. like i've stated MANY times if anybody bothers to read: the expectations by fans for lebron are HIGHER than that for kobe. and you only have higher expectations for a better player.
I like your composure and what the way you look it from the perspective of a 25 young man who has the maturity of a veteran who is near the end of his career. First of all, PPl like the Chuckster have repeatedly called Bron out that winning with co-superstars is nothing great but I happen to DISAGREE. Barkley has always wanted to be the guy but will always be remembered to be on a the greatest team not winning anything as Steve NASH unfortunately will be. As the President has remarked Lebron should go somewhere where the foundation, the coaching staff and the teammates should only be solid but great. Cleveland's owner and recent history of changes showed that it is way too unstable to trust. The only other place I would consider would be Chicago with Thibs and a very promising core of talents. Second James is immensely smart in my books for knowing WHAT he really wants. Leaving the dream of being a multi billionaire and playing in the biggest markets..... and wanting really to win and put Wade's team over the hump. Besides the only guy I think is a bit selfish is Chris. Thats another story. DWade is another guy who seems to make sacrifices.
What's the difference between best player and best winner? Playing well is a means to winning often. Bryant plays well enough to win more than anyone else today. LeBron plays really well but hasn't won anything to date. He hasn't even won a game in the Finals. How can you crown him the best player if his skills don't translate into wins? Shouldn't that be the main criteria? Isn't that the point of any game? To win the damn thing?
Well, daywalker02, as far as Chris Bosh is concerned.... ...he's the guy who will have the improve the most with his current cast. I don't know if Bosh is selfish in wanting to go where he had to best chance to win big and win often. He's certainly seen now as not worth all the time and trouble we went to around here to start internet campaigns and send team spirit cars to recruit him here, expecting him to be the piece that would make our Rockets title contenders. More sour grapes if you ask me. Bosh is a very good player, and it would have been just as silly not to pursue him as it is condescending and immature to berate him now because he made his own choice, and it didn't include Houston, daywalker02. But I do know that, as currently the Heat's equivalent of Kevin Garnett (their best big man), Bosh has to do a big man's job, especially a big man of his skill: rebound the basketball and defend the paint. And in spite of the numbers he's managed, that is not necessarily considered a staple of Bosh's game. Pau Gasol had much the same history in Memphis before he joined the Lakers—skilled big man with more finesse then force; put up good numbers on bad teams; couldn't win when it counted, and couldn't carry a team. Amazing what a change of scenery and teammates can do for a good player. Bosh is the player among this group with something to prove, and the player among this group who has to make the biggest strides. He doesn't have to be everything, like he had to in Toronto, daywalker02. But he has to play like a big man. Inside. Tough. No more of this high-post crap from somebody with his size and length and ability. Dirk Nowitski he is not. And if Bosh knows what's good for him, he shouldn't try to be. Nowitski is special. But nobody needs a 7' shooting guard. We'll see how it works. Wade will score. LeBron will do all the little things. And some of the big ones, too. Will Bosh defend? Rebound? Control the paint? If he can, that will make the Heat that much tougher to beat all too soon.....
