it amazes me at some people. yall live on freaking fairy tale island "IF, BUT , HE HAD, WOULD HAVE BEEN, SHOULD HAVE BEEN, IF HE CAME THERE" STFU 11 rings as a coach. STFU he has more than anybody as a coach in the NBA. so nobody has an argument. b/c you can't say "IF" PHIL "HAS" NOT IF good lord
I'm overrated in a sense of being the greatest coach ever. Not if he was a great coach or not. Eh, why don't people get it. Most mature post I have seen all day. It's good to know that there are people out there who post like you.
Woops. I meant on the first sentence as "I'm saying he's overrated in a sense of being the greatest coach ever."
Oh, so you're one of those people who still believe Osama and Saddam Hussein are smoking Cigars in Cuba. I should've known better.
You all fools! Robert Horry got 7 rings, obviously he is better than Jordan ever be and way better than Kobe and Shaq. Shaq didn't win a champ before joining Horry at the Lakers. Horry won Champs with 3 different teams, obviously he is the key. If you guys say Phil Jackson is the best coach ever because of 11 rings, no one can deny Horry is the best player ever! /case closed.
The Bulls made the playoffs without Jordan in 93-94 and 94-95, with a combined win total of 102-62 with Pippen as the only All-Star on both teams. Phil Jackson coached both of those teams. The Lakers made the playoffs without Shaq in Phil's first two years back from "retiring" with nothing more than Kobe, Odom, and a bunch of scrubs. Don't believe me? Here's the roster and where they're at right now. 2005-2006 Roster Kobe Bryant Lamar Odom Smush Parker -NOT IN THE LEAGUE Brian Cook Chris Mihm -NOT IN THE LEAGUE Kwame Brown Devean George -NOT IN THE LEAGUE Luke Walton Sasha Vujacic Laron Profit -NOT IN THE LEAGUE Andrew Bynum Ronny Turiaf Devin Green -NOT IN THE LEAGUE Jim Jackson -RETIRED Von Wafer Aaron McKie -RETIRED Stanislav Medvedenko -NOT IN THE LEAGUE 2006-2007 Kobe Bryant Lamar Odom Smush Parker -NOT IN THE LEAGUE Brian Cook Maurice Evans Kwame Brown Jordan Farmar Luke Walton Sasha Vujacic Vladimir Radmanovic Andrew Bynum Ronny Turiaf Von Wafer Aaron McKie -RETIRED Shammond Williams -NOT IN THE LEAGUE
Phil always was careful to put himself with top level talent. He never won without top level talent. But I think it is false argument to use that fact alone to suggest that he was overrated. It only proves that he could win when given the talent. However, I also think the amount of his championships, his success, can be a false indicator of his level of greatness above guys like Larry Brown, Hubie Brown, Lenny Wilkins and others. The fact is that none of these coaches had the same level of talent Phil always had. I don't believe that championships alone can really measure a coach's greatness. Instead, greatness should be measured on ones ability to change the way the game is played. Don Haskins' accomplishment, for example, is, I believe, as great or even greater than Phil's multiple championships, because Haskins' was not dictated solely by the level of talent he had around him, but a decision he made in the face of utter criticism. Haskins saw what others weren't willing to see. Phil's accomplishment was mostly due to the players around him. Did Phil inspire confidence? Sure, but it was the players themselves that was responsible for the accomplishment and nothing on Phil's part.
boy, it is obviously that you don't know much about NBA history. MJ and Pippen teamed for 3 yr, playing under a pretty good coach, but could never advance to the Conf Finals. even tho MJ liked Collins a lot, he was agreeable to a coach change. with pretty the same roster, PJ guided the Bulls to 3 straight rings. the same with the Lakers. Shaq and Kobe played teamed for 3 years under a good coach, Del Harris, but could never advanced to the Conf Finals. PJ was usher in as the new coach. with pretty much the same roster, he guided the Lakers to 3 straight rings.
Yes, I know about Del Harris not being able to guide the Lakers in the late 90's. Still, when Phil Jackson took over, it took the Bulls 2 years afterwards to win a ring. Kobe Bryant was still developing in his career by the time Phil Jackson took over. He was improving on points every year. In fact, I'll give you the stats. Regular seasonYear Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG 1996–97 L.A. Lakers 71 6 15.5 .417 .375 .819 1.9 1.3 .7 .3 7.6 1997–98 L.A. Lakers 79 1 26.0 .428 .341 .794 3.1 2.5 .9 .5 15.4 1998–99 L.A. Lakers 50 50 37.9 .465 .267 .839 5.3 3.8 1.4 1.0 19.9 1999–00 L.A. Lakers 66 62 38.2 .468 .319 .821 6.3 4.9 1.6 .9 22.5 2000–01 L.A. Lakers 68 68 40.9 .464 .305 .853 5.9 5.0 1.7 .6 28.5 And you can't fault Del Harris for losing against the Spurs first championship. Tim Duncan and David Robinson pairing up is one of the best one-two combo's in league history. Looking back it now, it's no shame that they were knocked out by them.
Kobe wasn't the main guy during the first lakers 3peat, it was Shaq. Shaq was at his peak during that 3 peat. The Bulls had to get over the Pistons hurdle before breaking through and winning the first title. I'll credit the maturation of Pippen along with Jordan buying the triangle and trusting his teammates more, but PJ had a hand in both of those happening.
I know Kobe wasn't the main guy. It's pretty obvious that Shaq was the main guy since he won 3 NBA Finals MVP's in the first Laker three peat under Phil. I'm simply saying that Kobe improving and becoming the player that he became was still in the early stages during Harris tenure. Having Kobe coming to his own with Shaq at his peak made the Lakers contenders. That's what I was implying.
The really really hard fact is that no one, no one, has accomplished what Phil Jackson has in his coaching career. You can talk all you want but, it is what it is, all talk even with the stark reality staring you in the face. The only HC that Jordan ever respected was PJ. Period. He was forced to retire when Jerry Krause pulled a Morey on him. Krause wanted another coach, and he already picked his fishing buddy, Tim Floyd, at the midst of the Bulls last championship run. Jordan said he would never play for another coach and, indeed, in a show of ultimate respect for his coach, he retired instead of playing under Floyd, Krause's anointed one whom he hired as he fired the HOF coach. He fired PJ because he would not agree with the way Krause was running the team and also PJ would not buy into Krause's philosophy. Jordan and the other Bulls players sided with PJ and the rest is history. It was also PJ who convinced Jordan, who was almost single-handedly tearing up the league at that time, to tone down his game and trust his team mates more. Jordan reluctantly went along with PJ, and again, the result was a Bulls dynasty. The point is that no one could have made Jordan do anything on the basketball court other than PJ. That is ultimate respect from the greatest player who ever played basketball. It is bizarre to consider, even for a second, that the winningest basketball coach of all time is over rated. Let us give the respect that PJ is due. He earned it.
He is overrated because too many people just use number of rings to judge him as the "greatest coach ever" which is hardly deserved. That said, he is a great coach no doubt. Simply put, you have to be BOTH good AND lucky to win so many titles. Some coaches are good but unlucky. Some are lucky but not very good.
Let's just get this straight: Phil Jackson is a greater coach than Del Harris. So the answer to your question is probably not. But if you would have given Hubie Brown that kind of talent or Chuck Daly or Lenny Wilkins, no question they would have 3 peated with all of these coaches.
