PFT: Matt Schaub is Raiders’ top quarterback target, Mark Sanchez next

Well, I think it's safe to assume pass defense is the #1 factor affecting WRs.

But anyway, you can completely dismiss the numbers I gave to you earlier, when I put them together, I read the charts totally wrong (auto-sort was out of whack). My bad.

2003: Colts 5th
2004: None
2005: Jaguars 7th
2006: Colts 2nd, Jaguars 10th
2007: Colts 2nd, Titans 10th
2008: Colts 6th, Titans 9th
2009: None
2010: None
2011: Jaguars 8th / Steelers 1st, Browns 2, Ravens 4th
2012: None / Steelers 1st
2013: None / Browns 8th, Steelers 9th

So yeah, Green really does have a very impressive resume given the competition he has faced in the same amount of time relative to Johnson. Especially considering he's just now hitting his stride.

It's my hope that the voters won't look at Megatron and Green coming up on Andre's records and think "well they're better than him, so let's just wait and put them in the hall instead."

Andre's accomplishments are wonderful and deserving a HOF spot, regardless of what happens after he leaves the game.

 

Bro, he's in like

Spoiler

 

So then what's the point of your stance on playing Geno Smith his rookie year and him having a terrible season? That he will be an elite quarterback or that he'll be good enough to compete for championships? Because with a good defense and a running game, Bradshaw won four, and played very well as a passer in big moments, Elway played in three during his "terrible passer" years then won two later, and "wasn't ever anything special as a QB" Bledsoe played in a Super Bowl, started 12 years in the league and threw for 44,000+ yards.

Do you think the Jets would take any of that from Geno Smith if you asked them right now?

Your entire point seems to be that playing him was a mistake and that there's no way he can recover from such an abysmal season. I'm showing you people who did. I could show you others that were a little less successful but still solid. There are many more who played early than those who didn't.

That's all I'm saying. You don't know what Geno Smith has in his makeup to respond to a bad first year. You'll find out next season.

 

Geno Smith would be good enough to compete for championships 20 years ago or more, he's not good enough today. In fact, he's probably out of the league within 5 years.

 

Yea... 20 years ago nobodies like John Elway was playing QB in the NFL so Geno is definitely good enough to win a chip back then. Lol..

You're so smart Bobby

 

Being worthy is not the same as being elected, though. When you look at the eligible WRs, the soon-to-be eligible WRs and the group of active WRs… there are 12+ legitimate candidates. And the HoF has shown very little regard for WRs, generally. So he has to fight through a lot of strong candidates at a position that has historically been marginalized by voters.

That’s fairly dubious. He’s 17th in total yards; 14th in receptions; 68th in TDs. He is second all-time in YPG – but I’m not sure that alone is enough to vault him into the top five discussion.

 

Bobby forgets that the quarterbacks he mentioned played during an era when the defense could mug receivers all over the field and it was open season on quarterbacks. In today's NFL defenders can't touch a receiver after 5 yards and quarterbacks can't be breathed on. So he's way off with the point he's TRYING to make...

 

1200 more yards puts him in the top 10 all time, 2500 more yards puts him in the top 5 2700 puts him top 3. If he has 3 more mediocre (for him) years, he's top 3 all time. 3 more years like he had last season and he's solidly #2 all time. Also, that's just if he only plays till how old Reggie Wayne is right now.

I get that there will be plenty of candidates, but Andre Johnson should be pretty far ahead of almost if not all of them.

 

Not sure what kind of crack some of you are smoking...

The last 2 years, AJ has averaged 110 catches and 1500 yards. Sure, he's at a risk for injuries and he's getting older...but his production is still up there with the best of them.

Assuming he finishes off his career with ~300 more catches and ~3000 more yards (which isnt far fetched at all), he would finish his career as the 3rd all time leader in receptions and 2nd all time leader in yards.

Think about that for a second.

Only 2 people in the history of the game getting more catches...and only 1 person in the history of the game getting more yards.

At that point, who gives a hell about TDs...the guy is clearly one of the best in the history of the game.

 

So, IOW, still a long way to go until he’s “easily a top 5 all time WR and there is a strong case for top 3”?

And, BTW, everything you just laid out is the same path Reggie Wayne, Steve Smith and Larry Fitzgerald are all currently on (with more stable QB situations). And Calvin Johnson (4 years younger) and Brandon Marshall (3 years younger) are both within 3,500 yards of AJ and in entering their primes. So he might vault to the top – but it’s just as likely his stay will be short-lived.

In terms of competition for induction - among retired players, Harrison, Owens and Moss are no-brainers (and ahead of AJ) with Brown, Bruce and Holt on the cusp with strong candidacies. Among his peers, Fitzgerald, Welker, Wayne and Smith are all grouped with him (and, frankly, are higher profile given their QBs and/or teams). And there’s almost no doubt that Calvin Johnson will lap him. Meanwhile, there’s a gaggle of great, young WRs in a pass-happy league coming up (JJones, AJG, Dez, BMarsh…).

Andre Johnson is going to rack up a ton of yards and catches – but so did Cris Carter and it took him 10 years to get in. Tim Brown is top 5 in receptions, top 6 in yards and he’s at five years and waiting - and he’s also top 7 in TDs and has played in a Super Bowl. Andre Johnson’s TD total is glaringly low (68th) and he’s been to the postseason twice in 11 seasons – those two may unfairly be beyond his control (especially W/L); but if you have 12+ worthy candidates, you can bet they’ll be giant factors.

He’s got a tougher road than people realize.

 

Think about this instead: when Cris Carter retired, he was 2nd all-time in receptions and 4th all-time receiving yards and it took him 10 years to get in. More troubling, Tim Brown was 3rd and 2nd and he's not in (five years and counting). And that's without having to forecast.

When you look at the eligible WRs, the soon-to-be eligible WRs, his peers, and the group coming up behind him... AJ's road is much more difficult than people realize. And you can bet TDs and losses are going to become a factor in that close an environment.

 

Think about this... Dre is playing in an era where receivers can't be touched and quarterbacks are airing the ball out yet he's NEVER had double digit TD's.... With all the catches and yards he had last year he only had 5 TD's. He'll help move the chains but he doesn't change the score board.

Dre will probably get in the H.O.F. (depending on the next few years) but he will probably be an old man when he gives his acceptance speech.

 

No....IOW still 2 or 3 years away from being top 3 in receiving yards, there is already a strong case for him being a top 3 all time WR.

Reggie Wayne is 34 coming off of blowing out his ACL, Steve Smith is 34 and about to be suck on the Ravens with a "throw it up for grabs" style QB...not exactly ideal for a 5'9 aging WR, Larry Fitzgerald is about a year younger than Andre Johnson, but he's about 1000 yards behind him despite playing in more games. As to "more stable QB situations Flacco is mediocre at best, Carson Palmer is going to be 35 and he's not exactly an awesome QB, and while you have a point with Luck being a rising star, Wayne probably won't be in a position to take advantage of that being old and recovering from blowing out his knee.

Calvin will undoubtedly pass him one day unless he suffers injury, as to Marshall, he's a solid WR, but he's not entering his prime....He's going to be 30...

Yes, I agree they are no-brainers

Nope. A solid argument can be made for Moss, but not Harrison or Owens.

All of which Andre is clearly ahead of.

.

All grouped with him, and all grouped behind him.

Of those, only Calvin and Marsh are even in the conversation.

I've been over this, Cris Carter never had even one dominant season, he just played for 16 seasons and only really had 8 of what I'd consider above average seasons. He was a compiler more than anything and that's why it took so long (and should have taken longer)

Tim Brown is another player who was more of a compiler than anything, he never led the league in receiving yards, never had a 90+ yards per game season (though he came close once). He just played for 17 seasons and had a bunch of solid seasons....that's how you end up having to wait.

Those aren't factors that really matter, again did we care that Calvin Johnson only had 5 TD receptions or that his team won 4 games that year when he broke the all time record for yards in a season? Of course not.

I could see how someone would think that if they gave a lot of emphasis to things that don't matter.

 

If Cris Carter or Tim Brown had been even close to as dominant as Andre Johnson has been, they wouldn't have had to wait.

 

Times are going to change...the NFL had a stick up it's ass about getting WRs into the Hall.

 

I don't even think it was that, I think it was just that we had a few WR's that had very weak cases for the HOF because they were more of compilers than they were dominant players. No truly dominant WR has that much trouble getting in.

 

I'm not sure how all this AJ stuff got started, but he is a great WR and undoubtedly a hall of fame caliber receiver, I would say even if he retired now. The problem is when he will get in. The WR position is a tuff one to crack in the Hall. Hopefully he has a couple more above average (at least) seasons left and the voters view it as Bobby does. That's the problem, we don't always know what the voters are viewing as important.

 

I think we can just go on what has happened in the past, most HOF snubs happen for a reason and it's usually guys who never actually led the NFL in receiving at any point or had super short careers like Sterling Sharpe. I don't think anyone could name even one truly dominant WR that struggled to get in the HOF, but you can probably name several pretty good WR's or just solid WR's that had problems. Sharpe is the closest I could think of, and if he'd played more than 7 seasons, he'd be in.

 

Yeap... That sounds like Dre to me. He's more of a "compiler" but not truly dominant. Steve Smith has a better shot at getting in the H.O.F. than Dre...

 

Andre Johnson has a good chance at being a Hall of Famer.

John Clayton is in charge of the NFL Hall of Fame committee and has stated that wide receivers are the most under represented in the Hall of Fame and that they will be given priority. He said there are a half dozen that should be in, and they will get them in to the Hall over the next half dozen years.