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Peyton Manning: CHOKER or NOT

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by Rocket River, Jan 16, 2006.

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Is Peyton Manning a Choker

  1. YES

    79 vote(s)
    52.3%
  2. NO

    32 vote(s)
    21.2%
  3. He still has time. . I'm gonna hold judgement

    40 vote(s)
    26.5%
  1. Icehouse

    Icehouse Member

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    Once John Elway got his stud RB, he knew how to hand the ball off to him.
     
  2. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    put John Elway on the 49ers in the 80's...think they win LESS championships than they did with montana??

    put Elway on this current Colts squad...think they look this lost in the playoffs???

    i realize it's all guessing..it's all hypotheticals. but again...i've never seen a QB carry his team more than Elway did.
     
  3. rdsgonzo13

    rdsgonzo13 Member

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    It's not. At all.

    Let's look at Indy's playoff losses:

    Titans: The Titans dominate all day and Indy scores a TD in garbage time and loses 19-16. Putrid offensive output by the Indy O.

    Jets: Indy's offense is shutout.

    Miami: Indy's offense scores 17 only, despite their defense forcing 3 turnovers deep in plus territory.

    Pats: Manning sucked badly both games against them; game one with the INT's and game 2 his team put up 3 pts

    Steelers: Manning's offense puts up 3 pts till they are getting taken to the woodshed 21-3.

    Lets look at Moon's 3 most famed playoff losses:

    Buffalo: 41-38. The offense dominates on the road against the #2 ranked NFL defense. The defense gives up 5 straight TD's to a backup QB and backup RB.

    Denver: Moon is 27 of 36 for 325 yards and 3 TD's but the D gives up the lead to Elway and Del Greco misses a huge chip shot FG in the 2nd half after Haywood drops a perfectly thrown sure TD. Denver had a great D with Atwater, Dennis Smith, Mecklenburg, etc. They only gave up 10 pts the next week in Buffalo.

    KC: 28-20. The offense cuts the lead to 21-20 late but the D allows a weak Chiefs offense to march the field and put it away with a TD drive.

    Moon's Oilers never made the SB and neither did Manning's Colts but when you drill deeper Moon's Oilers mainly lost in the playoffs not because of offensive ineptitude, but becasue the Defense consistently blew BIG leads and the R&S really struggled to control the clock when given a big lead.

    In almost everyone of Indy's playoff losses, you can point to Manning's play as probably the main reason they lost the game. Their D has stepped up in the playoffs.

    A more relevant comparison IMO would be to compare Moon to Fouts and Manning to Jeff Bagwell or Karl Malone, 2 great regular season players who choke in the clutch.

    Also, Manning has had the benefit of a future HOF RB and HOF WR his whole career. THe one yr Edge was out Indy didnt make the playoffs. Moon had a bunch of decent, but not great WR's. Those WR's did absolutely nothing without Moon the rest of their careers. Moon had decent, but not pro bowl caliber RB's. Every single Oilers game the defense came in with one goal: To stop Moon. Manning hasn't had to deal with that because if you focus completely on the passing game, Edge will just kill you behind that OL. Moon was also a much better teammate and didnt call out teammates when things went bad. You didnt see him call out the Oilers Defense after the Buffalo game. No doubt Manning would have.

    Another obvious difference is that Moon wasnt even allowed into the NFL during his peak physical prime. How many titles would Tom Brady, Troy Aikman, etc have if they were blackballed by the NFL until age 28?

    Also, Moon did win big games in College and the CFL. Manning has lost big games at every level.

    I also doubt very seriously Manning will make the Pro Bowl at age 40 as Moon did with Seattle.
     
  4. candlegreen

    candlegreen Member

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    I think the Run and Shoot system is what made the receivers probowlers at any point in their careers, with the exception of maybe Jefferies. The problem with that style of play is that it doesn't really run away any clock. Half of those routes go out of bounds and there's no running game to boot. You rely on completions and first downs to run any clock and 3 and outs would be devastating to hold any lead, even a 32 pt one....
     
  5. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Member

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    The whole team is choked as a whole but since Manning is the leader, he's choker #1. Elway didn't win the big one until he had Terrell Davis but he did lead his team to two Super Bowls before that BY HIMSELF. The man didn't have an Edgerrin James, a Marvin Harrison, or even a Reggie Wayne. Peyton Manning has had the personnel, the coaching, and finally a defense to back him up this year, and they ALL choked.

    The one reason I think Manning folds under pressure is because he audibles so much. When an above average defensive team comes up with new sets and new defensive plays to throw off a QB, you can't prepare for that..and you especially can't prepare for that by just doing audibles. He sees a blitz package but then the defense falls back into a zone...crazy ish like that is what Peyton can't beat. I think this is why Belichick always had the upper hand on him.
     
  6. Icehouse

    Icehouse Member

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    I agree. Elway was a stud.
     

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