RIET, Sometimes change is good right? I find it hard to believe that so many or saying this trade is a failure before Welsey has played 1 minute with T-Mac and Yao. Saying Wesley is some sort of ball hog or shot happy is absolutely unfounded, no matter how bad he does on a fantasy team. BTW .....which fans are clamoring for "more time to develop chemistry"? I haven't seen many of them. Most of them are on the "trade everyone" and "fire JVG" bandwagon". You can't have your cake and eat it too (not you specifically).
I am not a Vecsey fan, but, for the most part, he is right on this one. Alexander needs to step in before the team is mismanaged into oblivion. Nine out of ten personnel moves, especially contracts, over the last several years would not have been made by an average fantasy league player.
Vescey being Vescey. Just seemed like a big rant on paper. Trading JJ away in the deal for Wesley makes me question the motive, but I think it was done for more reasons we have no idea about. I have to think something else is indeed going to happen as they opened up a roster spot to either use the TE or get multiple players in another deal. I'm going to wait it out and see how this team looks once the deadline passes before I pass full judgement.
Sometimes change is good. Trading to get TMac was good. Trading JJ to get Wesley will do what for us? It's not like both players are underachievers in their early 20's who needed a change of scenery. We did not get Drew Gooden or even Eddie Griffin in Minnesota. You know what you'll get with both of them They are very similiar in talent. Given that, why disrupt the little chemsitry we already have with a wild card and no upgrade in talent. Doesn't make any sense. I was referring to Jeff's thread awhile back. There are many people on this board who do not post regularly who would agree with Jeff's assessment that we added a bunch of new players and we just needed some time. I didn't agree with that but it's plausible. The fact management is now trigger happy and getting no net benefits is ridiculous.
Vescey was way off on plenty of things, but dead on that managment has made some horrible decisions in the past 6 months. Seriously, if Les doesn't like what he sees, it's time for him to consider the people that scrapped all the supporting talent out of the roster. The Jim Jackson deal is absolutely terrible. Evan
RIET, Re: little chemistry ......if that is so, then why be satisfied with "little chemistry" and not roll the dice and improve that chemistry? And I wouldn't call Welsey a wild card. The guy has been super solid throughout his career. We may have a hard time seeing how this trade helps, but I have a hard time seeing how this trade hurts. I was one of the minority who felt this team needed time to gel, although more through evolution (roster changes over time) than then status quo. As far as net benefits, how can you look at a piece of paper and say that without seeing what benefits, or lack of, it brings on the court?
Vecsey assumes Damon Jones wanted to play for Houston. Although that should be a "given", I never saw Jones quoted as wanting to sign with the Rockets in any reliable source. I'll wait until Wesley has played 10 games or so and/or the two remaining roster spots are filled in before passing judgment. Must have been a slow day for sporting news in NYC...
It's not the personnell, it's the system. You can keep rotating all the players in that you want, but our talent level isn't that bad. The players we have just don't produce in this system.
You can't make haphazard moves in the NBA. 2 major rules in NBA trading: never trade big for small, and don't make lateral moves. We just managed to do both, so long as you don't think this trade lowers our talent pool (which I personally do). If they want to trade, either move the guys that are miserable on the court (Taylor, Howard, Gaines, Ward) or bring in someone that could really help (Nene, Wilcox, Swift). If we moved Jackson in a package that got us a 4, I wouldn't be mad. But a 6-1, 34 year old SG that can't manage to score over 14 a game on a depleted Hornets team? Are you kidding me? Even if you argue that he helps with ball handling and our scoring stays even, we just gave up rebounding - weakening us even more. Terrible terrible terrible terrible move. At best, I look at this as a short term gain move to make up for the fact that Lue's gone, and Sura and Ward are injured. Which would leave us with Barry, Gaines, and Barrett. Fire Gundy, and clean out the scouting department. Put CD on notice. Evan
emjohn, It has yet to be proven whether this is a haphazard move. So move scrubs w/ bad contracts for young big men with cap friendly contracts? Please tell me how this is to be done. Im going to try and find a list of trades that have been pulled off where middle aged journeymen SGs were able to secure young big men with potential. BTW ...check out the trade thread .....CD said they tried to ask about Brown and the Hornets said no.
When I said wild card I meant locker room wild card. It seems that everyone on team liked JJ. He was a good presence and finally shaken off that reputation as a "cancer" which was probably undeserved stemming from his days in Dallas. We know exactly what Wesley will bring which is not much different than JJ from a talent standpoint. It's not like either player will become a dominant force at age 34. However, JJ did bring stability to the team and was not a bad 3rd scoring option. He wouldve been a great 6th man if we ever added any real talent to this team. How could this trade hurt? You should never make a trade just to make a trade because players are human beings and they develop friendships and comraderie. If you make a trade, the value proposition is an upgrade in talent or more leadership. That's not happening here. Wesley at best will duplicate what JJ brought - both on the court and in the locker room. At worst, his teammates will not like the guy. Through all the losing, at least the players stuck together and there's been no bickering or finger pointing. Now the team has been completely disassembled, there are no relationships whatsover. This is now a hodge podge of strangers. The evolution of management: Kenny Thomas -> James Posey -> Jim Jackson -> David Wesley. This is a trainwreck.
The problem with the move in my eyes is that we added a short 2 guard that will probably play point for us that gets paid more and doesn't add production. Now we have even more money invested in a weak position. We have all these people to play point and all these players at power foward and those are still weak positions and now small foward is weak.
RIET, I think JJ's locker room presence is a good thing to bring up. You mentioned that he was thought of as a cancer. Maybe JVG felt he was being one? Thats why I said we don't know about off the court issues that may have been a factor here. Hell, he may have been an angel. But JVG has always pointed out that in our bad starts to games, that we lack "heart and effort". Who knows who he is pointing fingers at, but its entirely possible that JJ was one of them. As far as #s, JJ and Wesley are the same. My point is, we don't know what Wesley will bring chemistry wise right? If you are certain that he won't change the chemistry, then well just disagree, or at least, Ill disagree until its proven on the court. BTW, the evolution you noted proves nothing. Kenny Thomas has not proven to be a better player than David Wesley. Neither has Posey or JJ. CD and JVG are chaning the pieces until a good mix is found. Nothing wrong with that IMO.
How can you say that? Wesley at age 27 was a good player. At age 34, is neither a true starter nor a long term solution. Both K Thomas and Posey have at least 6 good years left. I would trade Wesley for Posey in a second.
Yea, something else had to be going on with this trade outside of a strictly talent basis. Hell, maybe JJ doesn't have as much value as much as us fans like to think. Wesley is a good character, chemistry player.
ya think?? the guy has been a journeyman his entire career. i like him...i like that kind of tough player. but i think the opinions of him on this message board are way overvalued.
