perhaps we're forgetting that francis is still a pretty good player

Since some of you are confused on my Stevie technicals quote and follow up stats. Here is my initial direct quote in response to a statement by one of you for which I provided the stats. I of course said the other season not this previous season.


You then mentioned his slapping the backboard. Those are isolated incidents that cost the team a point, but usually resulted in some momentum for the team.

Isolated incidents? Didn't he have 19 or 20 techs the other season? I have to think at least half at the minimum were backboard slaps and gooning. Usually resulted in some momentum for the team? What's our record when Steve slaps a backboard?

 

I just find it ironic that someone like Andre Miller who, I'm sure you'd attest to Timing, is the antithesis of Francis, supposedly possesses all of these characterisitics that make him *the* protean floor general in the NBA outside of Jason Kidd, yet all he's done in his 3 years in the league is "lead" his team from bad to worse.

That tells me all I need to know about his leadership skills. I would have accepted him as a great player if his team had showed an inkling of progress in his 3 years, but alas, he's led them absolutely nowhere, which is why you won't see any remorse on the faces of Cleveland management when they ship his ass out.

As far as Francis "not showing any progress in 3 years", isn't one of the biggest single season turnarounds in NBA history considered "progress", since most people, at least those who haven't romanticized what Hakeem did in his 20 game re-awakening, considered Francis the best player on that team? I'll just have to accept the leadership he brings to the table that gives even talent devoid teams, like last year's Rockets, a chance to win every night, over the orthodox leadership you preach.

Perception will always be reality to some. Nash was an oft-injured, overpaid throw in from a trade until Finley became a star, Nowitzki came into his own, and Cuban opened his wallet to bring in talent.

Nobody even acknowledged Mike Bibby's existence his first 3 seasons. It was only after he landed with the most talented team in the league (nice luxury for a pg to have, btw), that anyone even took notice of him. Now, after 2 good playoff series, he's considered a top 5 point guard by most.

With the moves the Rockets have made and the players they're getting back, I'd wager the prevalent perception of him that you're so adamant about legitimatizing will change too.

 

Committment to winning:

1. He has not led his team to the playoffs in 3 years. Name me one other "superstar" who has been on the same team for the last 3 years who has not visited the playoffs.

My point here is simple, great players know not only how to win but also how to will their teammates to win. Talk all you want about talent and the West being so tough but this year is the year Stevie must lead the team to the playoffs or "Houston we have a problem" takes on more of a meaning.

2. Great players do the little things to get better. You know play D, get their teammates good opportunities (demonstrated by assists and team FG%), don't make silly turnovers, etc.

My point here is to this point in his career Stevie is a good statistical player on a medicore team. These guys are a dime a dozen. Every team has to have a best player, a great player is someone who makes those around him better and ultimately wins.

Again my point is this is a put up or shut up year for Stevie. He has the talent around him, he now has a big man (actually 2 with Ming & Griff), he has his best friend (Cat) and he talked management into wasting a first round pick on his college buddy (T-mo). It's definetely his team, but if it doesn't happen this year (progress not a championship) then it will quickly become the Towers team (Griff/Ming).

 

TPL,

I guess it was a good thing that Sacremento did not use that faulty logic when acquiring Bibby.

Players roles are different on each team, surround Steve will a talented team, and let's see if his assist totals go up and his turnovers go down.

This year will be a great indicator of how good he actually is...

DaDakota

 

Where did I say Bibby was untalented? The point being made was that he was perceived as a solid, unspectacular player who hadn't lived up to his billing as #2 pick given the success of other players taken in his draft.

Novel concept- surround him with good players and you get the best out of Mike Bibby, or any player for that matter.

It's simple logic.

 

I'd just like to point out that in the two games where Moochie hit game-winning threes, against Phoenix and New York, both shots were assists for Steve Francis. He could have selfishly jacked up shots against triple-teams, but he had trust in his CBA teammate, and it paid off. That is maturity.

 

zrb, no that actually means he's scared to take the last minute shot and isn't leader material. it's become obvious that steve just can't gain fans on here no matter what. there is a bad double standard.

 

Originally posted by tacoma park legend
I just find it ironic that someone like Andre Miller who, I'm sure you'd attest to Timing, is the antithesis of Francis, supposedly possesses all of these characterisitics that make him *the* protean floor general in the NBA outside of Jason Kidd, yet all he's done in his 3 years in the league is "lead" his team from bad to worse.

I think the theory on why some would prefer Andre here over Steve is that we already have some guys who's best attribute is that they can score. (Mobley, MoT, KT, Rice, Yao potentially) When you have a bunch of guys who can score you can facilitate that better with a point guard who's a textbook pass first guy with fundamental point guard skills rather than a point guard like Steve who's best attribute is scoring also. Someone on a team full of scorers needs to be the guy setting everyone up and we really don't have that. If you put Steve on a team full of scorers how is he going to make them better if what he does best is score? That might not be important when you're talking about a scoring guard or forward or whatever but when you're talking about the point guard position that's a lot more important. If the point isn't setting up the offense then who? Nobody I guess, maybe that's why we have an iso heavy offense and can't run a simple fast break. If Rudy can win a title with as is point guard fundamentals from Steve then he'll be raised to God status as far as I'm concerned.

 

Let's remember that Steve is playing a position that he didn't play in college. He's not only learning the NBA game he's learning a new position. I'll grant you that he has a lot to learn, but that doesn't mean he's immature.

When Steve first came to the team he made the MATURE decision to not call it his team for as long as Dream was here.

Even after a year with Shaq, Kobe still felt that he should be the leader of the team. That's selfish and immature in a way Francis never was.

 

That other season was before Steve continued his MATURATION.

In fact I'd say Steve cutting back on Tech fouls, is a result of him maturing.

 

Yes, Francis is still a pretty good player, however, we need to consider whether he is up to the level of a $95 million contract plus other conditions he asks for.

I would love to have him on the team for the years to come, but only if his salary will not create a big burden (penalty tax) to our team. And that will not create a sole reason for giving up many other good players.

After all, he has not been tested after the surgery. Should we not rush into taking that risk this year, which may remotely turn out to be a fatal blow to our chance of winning the championship in future if the surgery does not work out for him.

 

That shows someone who is MATURE enough and unselfish enough to know that he doesn't have to take the last shot of the game. Hey wait, a PG setting up other players on his team for a shot? Sounds like he's learning his position and maturing.

It seems that you want it both ways. You say he's immature because he goes up against great defenders and jacks up a shot, or would rather shoot than pass so he isn't a leader. Then you claim that because he DOESN'T shoot he's not a leader.