Misconception: BrianKagy speaks the truth Kagy- Women have more rights in Islam then in Christianity.
You should feel honored, you've made my list of people who are too ignorant to realize the stupid comment that they've made, or commonly called the ignore list.
Thanks, and I will try and be aware of my use of the term racism. The only person I think I've called racist is NJRocket. I don't think it's a good thing to be racist, but like you brought up concerning survival instinct I think it's partially natural instinct, especially with media input constantly showing pictures of middle eastern terrorists etc. I think it might be natural to be suspicious of a male middleeasterner in this time we live in. That doesn't mean it's still not racist. I think that it becomes more important to put things in perspective and make a concerted effort not to fall pray to racism no matter how natural it might seem. Honestly I think I only call it when I see it. If you see other specific examples please let me know, because I really do want to debate fairly and not jump to conclusions. As far as the 6 skinheads go, it depends I guess. If they are wearing neo-nazi clothing or emblems then it wouldn't be racist at all. If they just happen to be bald white-guys then it might be. I'm think sometimes common human nature can be racist. As far as law enforcement goes, I'm against profiling first and foremost because it's not effective, not just because it's racist. Like I said if people of middle-eastern heritage feel alienated and stop helping the war against terrorism, we're at a disadvantage. There would be one more active terrorist cell in NY. It's good to be wary of people based on suspicious behavior, random airport searches, etc. I want to stop all terrorists not just those of middle eastern heritage.
where in the world do you get this??? many, Jeff included, I think, see Jesus not as a messiah or as God but as a powerful advocate of equal rights for women.
man.. this made me laugh so hard i had to post about it again. Thank you Azadre!! And to repay you for the laugh Azadre, CLICK HERE!
Wow, you are cool. So clever. Did it make you feel all tingly and good to "zing" me like that? You should start with "care". I laughed at this too, because it's so sad. Azadre, I hope you get a lot smarter between now and the time this state licenses you to drive a car.
FB, your anti-profiling arguments really aren't holding water, I really don't think you're clear on what profiling is. Trying to determine the probable profile of someone you're trying to apprehend can include many factors- education, income, musical taste, age, likes and dislikes, cultural biases, all kinds of things. It can also include race. When trying to apprehend someone for a crime (or a possible future crime) profiling isn't a way to do it. Profiling is the way it's done. That's the way it's done because it works, despite your assertions otherwise. It is not perfect. It is of course fallable- you are, after all, pusuing an unknown. That's why it's a profile- a probable description of the suspect. If you're in Vidor texas, and police are investigating the murder of a black man hung by his neck from a tree with a burning cross nearby, the suspect(s) is/are going to be white. That is racial profiling. (Whether or not the police of that area would do a damn thing about it is another matter.) Now, maybe the profile is wrong. Maybe he was killed by another black man in a fit of rage and then framed in a particular way to make it look like a KKK killing. But if you're the investigator, and you refuse to use the clues, facts, and data given to you to create a profile of your suspect out of trying to be fair to all human beings and open to all possibilities in the universe, then, uh, you aren't a very good investigator. Over the decades profiling has reached remarkable levels of sophistication. The top profilers in the FBI can take what would seem to us incredibly small amounts of evidence from a homocide case and build an amazingly detailed profile- often, if the suspect is apprehended, that profile proves to be correct or damn close. It is effective and that's why it is used. Unfortunately, the profiling method is subject to a lot of interpretation by the individual, and is therefore often a sytem of abuse. Very often. NJrocket's feeling nervous around a few middle eastern guys about to get on a plane with him is not what I would call top profiling. In the US we have plenty of examples of the abuses of racial profiling in our police departments such as in NY or LA. The security for Israel's international flights probably won't be getting any awards for customer appreciation. There has been an attack on America, a very successful one. Many others have been thwarted that we know of, and many others on top of that that the public will never know. The profile for all the perpetrators of these attacks are incredibly similar racially, religiously, culturally, psychologically. US intelligence knows that future attacks are planned, also by men who will likely fit this profile. FB, if you think the enforcement agencies of the United States should ignore the probable profile of the men who are now planning these attacks in a show of fairness to all races, ethnicities, cultures, then... I don't know what to say. It would be nice, in a very PC open to the universe kind of way but it would be a damned ignorant way of pursuing possible suspects. Especially when the profile is so specific and the percentage of the US population that fits that profile is relatively small. Is racial profiling racist? Well, I guess by definition, yes. That could be debated, though, depending on what you think racism is. My example of the probable KKK murder above involves a racial profile which, if pursued, would certialnly fit under the definition of 'racism' but most certainly wouldn't be called that because the suspect would be white. I think Cohen's contribution on that topic above is good. I don't have a definitive answer there. What I do think is that profiling, including racial/ethnic/cultural/religious profiling, is an effective method when combined with all other investigatory powers to pursue those that are plotting mass murders of innocents here on US soil and should be used. The rest of the US's crime units will continue functioning. When intelligence comes in of a plot to bomb mosques, Jews and rednecks will be profiled for it. You seem to assert that profiling is the only method used and is therefore ineffective. That's not correct. It is used initially and then narrowed down more and more as investigation and evidence and facts and data contribute to the case. Whites, Jews and others will continue to be profiled for crimes that they were likely to commit. The CIA, FBI, secret service, black ops, State Department, Highway Patrol, Texas Rangers and others aren't going to drop all of the work they've got so they can go persecute middle eastern men. Some individuals will. Abuses will happen. It is not fair that individuals will abuse the system, but in my eyes even that doesn't make a case for dropping profiling altogether. It is not kind or fair that all the millions of innocent americans of middle-eastern descent should face discrimination because they fit the racial/cultural/religious profile of those who are plotting terrorist attacks against the US. I don't know what to say. I'm sorry, it's not fair. I'm also sorry that you have been a victim of racism. But I think your pain and frustration is blinding you to reality here.
I would also like to say that I'm personally comfortable around anyone who is or looks like they're from the middle east.
You won't see much of that around here... only the dumbasses - but then we of this country proclaim others elsewhere to be so ignorant. The problem with ignorance is that the majority of the time, you don't know you are. The vanity is sickening at times.
I'm not from the Middle East, but I guess I may look like it to some people on this bbs. Which according to at least one paranoid in this thread would allow for an empty seat on a plane. lol! With all the murders committed by white people and as many of them that are on death row for some of the most bizarre slayings, maybe I shouldn't board planes with white folks on 'em. Damn, they're all crazy! I don't want to die! Errr... nevermind. That would be ignorant for me to think that, wouldn't it? By the way, I'd like to thank all the folks that still treat me as someone to laugh with as opposed to someone to fear simply because I look the way I do. In the end hopefully feelings like that will conquer feelings of insane paranoia I see in some of these ignorant threads.
That's about as relevant as a Koresh referrence. Nolen ...your post hit the nail on the head in about a million different ways. Well done.
Excellent post Nolen, one of the best posts I've read on this board ever. Perhaps THE best. As much as I would have liked to say this myself, I will give you the honors. You've earned it. Go ahead and say it: CASE CLOSED.
I'm sorry if you don't agree, but that's my opinion. If it's irrelevant, it's irrelevant. If it's an orange it's an orange, etc., you get the point.
If I could block you Kagy, I would, also I bet F2001 posts were humorless(Too bad he's on my ignore list). *cough* kagy you think I am an idiot? Even though many aspects of Islam are misunderstood by non-Muslims, the ignorance, misinformation and incorrect assumptions that are made in regards to Islam's treatment of women are probably the most severe. Numerous verses of the Qur'an make it clear that men and women are equal in the site of God. According to the teachings of Islam, the only thing that distinguishes people in the site of God is their level of God-consciousness. Due to this, many people are surprised to find out that Islamic Law guaranteed rights to women over 1400 years ago that women in the Europe and America only obtained recently. For example, Islam clearly teaches that a woman is a full-person under the law, and is the spiritual equal of a male. Also, according to Islamic Law, women have the right to own property, operate a business and receive equal pay for equal work. Women are allowed total control of their wealth, they cannot be married against their will and they are allowed to keep their own name when married. Additionally, they have the right to inherit property and to have their marriage dissolved in the case of neglect or mistreatment. Also, Islam does not consider woman an "evil temptress", and thus does not blame woman for the "original sin". Women in Islam participate in all forms of worship that men participate in. Actually, the rights that Islam gave to women over 1400 years ago were almost unheard of in the West until the 1900s. Less than fifty years ago in England and America, a woman could not buy a house or car without the co-signature of her father or husband! Additionally, Islam gives great respect to women and their role in society --- it gives them the right to own property, marry who they want and many other rights. Also, it should be mentioned that the Prophet Muhammad's mission stopped many of the horrible practices in regards to women that were present in the society of his time. For example, the Qur'an put an end to the pagan Arab practice of killing their baby daughters when they were born. Additionally, Islam put restrictions on the unrestricted polygamy of the Arabs of the time, and put many laws in place to protect the well-being of women. Today, most of the so-called reforms in the status of women came about after the West abandoned religion for secularism. Even those in the West who claim to follow the so-called "Judaeo-Christian tradition" really follow the values of Western liberalism --- but just to a lesser degree than their more liberal countrymen. For more on this subject, please read: Women in Islam versus Women in the Judaeo-Christian Tradition --- The Myth and The Reality. If women in the Muslim World today don't have their rights, it is not because Islam did not give them to them. The problem is that in many places alien traditions have come to overshadow the teachings of Islam, either through ignorance or the impact of Colonialization. Eat some crow you ass...
I think I've read many topics like these before with people painting a happy face on a religion. You can find different flavors ranging from Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism. They're mostly similar in describing its peaceful ways and putting analogies for the target audience to sympathise. Never does it delve into our cultural conflicts. Never does it explain the core rift between our peoples. It does create some superficial understanding, but inevitably its tenuous and will wash away when the next conflict comes. It is very much like reading Cliff Notes to understand a 400 page novel. The essay on it is the day after. Maybe that is my own fault for not picking up a Book and reading it on my own. But that is only half the problem. Its my feeling that our sensitivity and aversion towards discussing culture in all its forms is forcing the wrong subject into the spotlight. Does culture and religion go hand in hand together? If so, do we know what goes on in the daily lives of a Middle Easterner? A Philipino? A Kenyan? On the other end, will a Muslim from Qatar know what another Muslim's daily life routine is in Indonesia? It is that core lack of understanding that we revert back to general ideologies and stereotypes that makes topics like these unending and cyclical. Religion is turning into a blanket statement for both factions and until we pull the covers ignorance and aggression will only escalate.
