Why should we settle for just the playoffs this season when we see what the rockets can do when they play to their best.
Don't you think this team becoming Yao Ming's has a lot to do with it? Yao is averaging over 22 points and 10+ boards a night in March... big difference between now and November. 22 and 10 is an elite player in this league at the toughest position to find legit players. However, since it looks very likely that we're going to make the playoffs, which was the only goal anyhow, no major flaws should be looked at right now? That's an interesting take. People who want to move Francis are talking about doing it at the only time they can do it -- the offseason. And in the offseason, the team is setting goals and getting the roster ready for next season. So this has everything to do with next season. You also said we should look at how the Rockets played without Francis. Do you mean games he has missed? They played one game this year without him after the Super Bowl fiasco and lost and played one game last year without him against Memphis and won. 1-1. I certainly hope you're not looking at the pre-Yao Ming numbers. Those used to be important. They're not anymore. Furthermore, I doubt anyone wants to CUT Francis (meaning just subtract him from the team), but rather move him and surround Yao with players that compliment his skills better.
I know you already said here that Steve isn't as talented as Kobe, but I think that needs to be said again -- I don't even think this is an issue anymore of egos. I'm sure it still plays a role, but flat out Steve can NOT shoot the ball right now worth a spit. 39% shooting and 28% from long range. The three championship seasons for the Lakers, Kobe never shot below 46.4% and Shaq never below 57.2%. This can't be overstated. I wish it was as simple as keeping these guys happy.
The mission for this year is making it to the playoffs. We haven't made it yet. The mission for the future is to win a championship. We don't have the players for it.
Basically, I agree New Yorker, that is the mission, and we accomplished it. But instead of rejoicing and having a great time, we are like grumpy old men. We want to think about what may happen next year. Forget the fact that we are in the playoffs, and we may actually do good. Its all about what happens next year now. YOU GUYS ARe ACTING LIKE WE ARE IN THE LOTTERY!!! CHEER UP. ENJOY THE PLAYOFFS. Then next year b**** and whine.
We've made the playoffs and for some people, like me, I wouldn't be shocked if we only won one game. It's not a big deal. What we do know is that we don't have a team that merits anything more than a first round exit. So we specualte about the best way to improve this team's effectiveness, and to us, that's moving Steve Francis because we see that he can't co-exist efficiently with Yao Ming. Is there a problem with any of this?
Look, paying Steve Francis max contract money for the role he plays inside a JVG offense is just plain stupid. It's bad business. Francis is the square peg trying to fit into a round hole in the Rockets' JVG era. Personally, I don't think Francis' game is an ingredient for making any franchise a contender, but at least he would have the chance to showcase his athletic skills and continue selling sneakers if he went to a franchise that isn't on the path to contention. Like I agreed in an earlier thread, Francis does deserve credit for sacrifincing his stats and role on the team to try and adjust to JVG's offense, but this is a business and you can't afford to pay max money to a guy who's role could be filled by many cheaper alternatives. Is it addition by subtraction? Yes. Are the Rockets' guaranteed success by trading Francis? No. That's going to depend on the decisions of team management. If they got the route of trading Francis for a trio of scrubs, then they had better be a player in free agency. If they trade Francis for one or two established stars, then it better be the right stars (though there are not a lot of stars in the league I would trade to acquire Steve Francis and his contract). I'm still for making a move though. The only way I see this team doing anything more than making an annual first round playoff exit with Francis is to do so in spite of Francis-- for example Yao Ming becoming a consistent top 3 player in the league. You know the saying, if the glove don't fit, you must trade Steve Francis.....or something like that.
We haven't made the playoffs. We're in good shape but I would not proclaim that we've accomplished anything until it's official. Anything can happen still... lots of road games, injuries, etc.
I think after what happened May 1st of last year involving a certain president on an aircraft carrier that people would learn not to proclaim "mission accomplished" until the mission really is accomplished.
The Rockets would have made the playoffs last year had the competition been the same as this year ... so basically the Rockets were a failure last year, but are a success this year since Stockton and Malone left Utah, Portland cleared house, and Phoenix imploded, is what you're saying.
Completely agreed. It's nothing like Shaq and Kobe. It's nothing about egos. I'de even go as far as to say that Steve Francis is a very unselfish basketball player. He wants to do the right thing. He knows Yao is the man. He wants to be the point guard and get his team involved. He is just physically incapable of doing these things. It's frustrating as hell to watch because here you have a guy trying so hard to do the right thing, but he just can't. He just can't pass to save his life. He can't read defenses. He's just a completely horrible point guard. It's completely different from Kobe Bryant. Kobe Bryant can spot up on the arc and shoot 3's, he can receive the pass and make his move, he can post up, and his impending incarceration notwithstanding, he's the 2nd greatest shooting guard of all-time. Unless it is off his own dribble, Steve Francis cannot do anything. He's not a set shooter, he can't slash in off Yao's doubles - his damage is done off the strength of his own dribble as we have seen the last few years. As anyone can plainly see, the Rockets do not play that game anymore (and rightfully so) and thus Steve's talents are wasted and his weaknesses are exposed. Quite frankly, when the Rockets win, they've been winning despite Steve Francis. The argument that the Rockets do bad without Francis as witnessed during the SuperBowlgate scandal holds no water. As Clutch said, noone is arguing to outright cut Steve Francis. These discussions are with the assumption that we would receive equal value. Obviously any team suffers when you subtract its primary ballhandler on one day's notice. Redistribute his trade value onto the roster with smart players who complement Yao and I think you'll go places. All of this aside, I still think you are going to have trouble trading Steve. Ask any teenager what they think about Steve Francis and they'll tell you they love him. People leave the game remembering the dunks and flashy crossovers. They are oblivious to the abysmal 7:5 TO-ASST ratio, complete inability to run a simple fastbreak and handle a high school press. No matter what you do, there will be a serious PR backlash - I just pray Les is courageous enough to realize it has to be done for this team to succeed.
What was the basis for defining this season a success? Was it Francis cutting his turnovers or shooting x%? Was it Yao becoming a dominant player? Seems like I remember it was Rockets making the playoffs. Mission Accomplished. People should quit whining about Francis when the Rockets have done what they were suppose to do for the year. I'm not sure that everybody would agree that our main goal this year was just to make the playoffs. Here's a couple of quotes to illustrate: The only goal that is worthwhile is to pursue a championship ," Van Gundy said. "You may not reach that every year, obviously. You need to strive every year to be a championship -caliber team, championship -caliber players. That's what we'll try to do here from day one." Jeff Van Gundy - Chronicle 6/12/03 "You have to strive to be a great team. I'm not satisfied with just playing in this league, and I don't think anybody is happy just to be on an NBA team. The goal is to win an NBA championship and as many as possible. That's what we want. This year is a major step toward that. We've been good. It's time for us to get over the hump." Jeff Van Gundy - Chronicle 12/15/03 I think Jeff more than anybody else is trying to keep us focused," Jim Jackson said. "Again, you want to be playing your best basketball come this time of the year. But you also want to look at it as your whole goal is not to just make the playoffs. Your whole goal is to make an impact once you get there." Jim Jackson - Chronicle 3/15/04 And if you think Francis isn't that good, just look how the Rockets have played without him. As Clutch pointed out, we're .500 without Francis the last two years. I'm assuming that you're refering to 3 years ago when Steve missed all of the games. Well, what did that really prove? That Moochie Norris wasn't a viable starter? Ok, so all that means is that you don't trade Francis for Norris.
I'll have to disagree with you there. As good as Clyde was, Kobe is better and he has the fiece killer instinct that only champions possess. He wants to rip your heart out and stomp on it. Clyde did not have that intangible.
so Francis was worth max money in the other system since the system changed. . .now we have to move him Rocket River
Absolutely. Yao's improvement has been key. But he's no where near ready to carry this team to June. He's still developing. My point is there isn't a point guard right now that could turn the Rockets into the Champs this season...Who would you trade Francis for? I can't think of a compelling trade to make that would be a wise move. You're operating under the assumption that Francis can't change his game. I think that's an incorrect assumption. The Rockets have nothing to lose by seeing if Francis can make that adjustment. He's certainly trying to and clearly his game is suffering for it. Let's say the Rockets make an early first round exit as expected. Now, you can do one of two things - you can trade a budding All-Star who play's harder then anyone else on the team - who's playing so hard that his game is suffering - who's immensely talented and may potentially still prove to deliver on his promise, and even if he doesn't still can develop into a quality point guard...or you can trade him for a steady vetern point guard who will make an immediate improvement to the team. Let's say the Rockets got someone like Mike Bibby - a player who's solid, but isn't going to get better. They won't play great defense like Francis does, but they won't turn the ball over and they can hit their shots over 45%. Well, first thing is their shooting percentage is going to plummet when Van Gundy forces them to play intense defense. Second, they aren't going to get better, and Yao's not going to be good enough to carry the team. So all that you have is a better playoff team, but not a championship team. I say keep Francis. When Yao is ready, and if Francis still hasn't adjusted by then...ok, trade him. But it would be foolish not to give the guy a chance to blossom into something more. Jason Kidd doesn't shoot the ball well and he turned out to be an MVP. Neither does Allen Iverson. Trading Francis would be a big mistake right now. I think you have to have some faith in people. Van Gundy has coached Francis for SIX MONTHS. Think about it. What do you get if you trade Francis now? A champion? no, you get a team that will loose to San Antonio instead of Dallas. And now, let's take a look at history: Did Jordon win his championship the first time he went to the playoffs? No. Did Shaq when a championship his first year to the playoffs? No. Olajuwon, Robinson? No and No. Webber? No Championship. Dirk? No Championship. Karl Malone? Didn't even make it to the finals until late in his career. And no one has yet to articulate a realistic trade for Francis. Who is going to take a player who is so expensive? The Rockets will get a lesser player for Francis.
