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Peak T-Mac or Peak Harden?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Mr Woods, Jan 22, 2021.

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Peak McGrady or Peak Harden?

  1. Tracy McGrady

    27.3%
  2. James Harden

    72.7%
  1. mac_got_this

    mac_got_this Member

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    Tucker is ripping Tate a new one
     
  2. Damion Laverne

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    T-Mac also blew a 3-1 lead in 2003
     
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  3. clos4life

    clos4life Contributing Member

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    It seems a 1/4 of the board are delusional.
     
  4. SamFisher

    SamFisher Virtuous
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    ^was 0 for 2 game 7s in his Rockets career.
     
    #144 SamFisher, Jan 22, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
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  5. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    If Tracy and Vince had stayed together this topic might be a complete 180 -- we need a peak Harden vs. VC discussion. Not sure I could vote against arguably the most exciting/ explosive player in NBA history -- VC over Harden is an easier decision than Harden over T-Mac (no question JH)... it's still a very tough call though, but it's a legit debate.
     
  6. BallSoHarden

    BallSoHarden Member

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    Harden and it is not close. For me personally, Harden is the one guy that I watched religiously, I would go out of my way to leave work to catch regular season games. The durability aspect is highly under rated, it is why he is several levels above T-Mac and Yao as far as impact on the franchise goes. Before playoff games I would hope the refs wouldn't screw us with Harden, but with Yao and T-Mac I had superstitious rituals and prayers that they would simply not get injured.

    I was a bit young to be able to control the remote when it came to watching Dream in Houston, I mostly only got to see nationally televised games/playoff games, I mostly listened to Jim and Gene play call on the radio as I didn't really have access to watch as we do today with streaming services/NBA tv etc. That is the reason for me personally Harden is the most memorable player in Houston sports.
     
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  7. jayfree

    jayfree Member

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    Peak DMO and it ain't even close!
     
  8. Pandaemonaeon

    Pandaemonaeon Member

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    And this was prime McGrady for those who love to use "when he's healthy" excuse. For all of Harden's alleged "bad" playoff moments, he never choked as bad as this.
     
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  9. RocketsFido

    RocketsFido Member

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    Peak Christian Wood ;)
     
  10. davidio840

    davidio840 Contributing Member

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    This is an easy answer.. Harden by miles is the better player and has the most playoff success compared to the two.

    Having said that, if Harden and McGrady played at the same time, who would be better? McGrady was a great player in his prime. The dunks, the 13 in 33, etc. were some awesome moments.

    Harden is a completely different player and by far better at his skill set. It’s a cool conversation to have though!
     
  11. Mr. Space City

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    Harden would be even better in Mcgrady’s time and Mcgrady would be a better Demar Derozan in Harden’s time.
     
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  12. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Contributing Member

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    tmac also didn't face near the opponents that harden has. he's certainly a better playoff performer than people give him credit for and you could certainly argue tmac has been cursed about as much as possible.

    in 2003 he blew a 3-1 lead, but it was to the #1 seed and he had arguably the worst playoff supporting cast in league history. seriously. the magic were an early 2000's eastern conference 8th seed, even though they had prime tmac all year. think how bad the supporting cast has to have been. then he comes to houston and his first year the rockets are 5th in SRS. in a perfectly balanced league, they would play something like the team that was 12th in SRS. so who was our first round opponent? 58-24 dallas, who was 3rd in SRS. an arguably top 3 team in the first round. and even in 2008, with yao hurt, we faced another #3 SRS team in utah. just crazy opponents for first round series.

    but then you look at harden. in the last 6 years, we've lost to:

    the champions (2015 warriors)
    the champions (2018 warriors)
    the champions (2020 lakers)
    would've been champions without injuries (2019 warriors)
    73 win team that somehow wasn't champions (2016 warriors)
    61 win, #1 defense team (2017 spurs, who were manhandling the 2017 warriors before zaza took out kawhi)

    even going back before that he lost to:

    the champions (2010 lakers)
    the champions (2011 mavs)
    the champions (2012 heat)
    60 win #1 seed vs #8 seed (2013 okc, though beverley hurt westbrook)
    54 win portland

    that's a crazy bunch of teams to lose to. by far the worst team he lost to was a 54 win team (with houston also being a 54 win team). everyone else ranged from elite to historically elite. hard to argue tmac is leading us over those teams, when none of the teams tmac lost to even made the finals, and i believe only the 2001 bucks (meh) and 2008 jazz made the conference finals, and for the jazz that was only because the warriors knocked off the #1 seed mavs. it's a big leap from 2nd round exit opponents to "greatest team ever?" opponents.
     
  13. AvgJoe

    AvgJoe Contributing Member

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    Peak 33 sec => McGrady
    Otherwise => Harden
     
  14. Kevooooo

    Kevooooo Member

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    Tmac and Dwight would have been interesting to see though
     
  15. Zboy

    Zboy Contributing Member

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    Harden despite not being as athletic.
     
  16. Zboy

    Zboy Contributing Member

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    Enjoy your first round series loses then.
     
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  17. chievous minniefield

    chievous minniefield Contributing Member

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    Sigh. What’s good about a thread like this is how much it impregnates my Ignore list.
     
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  18. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    [​IMG]

    Rocket River
     
  19. CCity Zero

    CCity Zero Member

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    Lol, you mean if Harden was on the team too with a prime tmac? Because Tmac wouldn't have been in a position to play in that series because houston would have lost in the 1st round and tmac would have been a guest on tnt or watching from his couch.

    The only time mcgrady advanced in the playoffs was when he was injured (2009 rockets winning round 1) or watching on the Spurs bench in his last year.
     
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  20. CCity Zero

    CCity Zero Member

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    Harden is the only answer.

    Playoff games played:
    Tmac : 50 total playoff games (20 w/ houston)

    Harden : 128 total playoff games (85 w/ houston)

    There's already multiple posts detailing Harden's performance in the playoffs. I mean the only time tmac got out of the 1st round was when he was on the bench (injured 09 rockets/watching from Spurs bench).

    Looking back, there were definitely some what ifs/injuries that certainly could be thought about but if you're starting a franchise knowing what you know now and how their careers have played out to this point regarding durability/stats etc. You're taking a young harden all day to start your franchise unless your only goal is 1st round exits.

    That's why it's hilarious to have this revisionist like history of events... Most likely people not picking harden are probably doing so because of recent events regarding the trade. In a few years if this same question is asked, it'll probably be 7/8s or even 90%+ taking harden.

    And If you're still taking tmac years from now, please reference this site- tmacs stats: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcgratr01.html vs Harden's: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hardeja01.html

    Also... I can't believe some posted how much tougher the defense was when tmac played... Lol hand checking was on its way out when tmac was really stepping up his career and while mcgrady got to experience both it's not like he played in the 70s/80s or even the harder part of the 90s. If tmac played some of the teams hakeem/Jordan played his career would have probably been cut in 1/2. Back injuries are no joke, but if your career is plagued by them there's not a ton you can do.
     

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