PE.com: Payton prefers Houston, Minnesota or the Clippers

I still don't understand, how is Mutombo going to help defend the PFs in the league? And how is he going to provide a 2nd shotblocking presence when he's on the bench? He's slow, slow, slow, meaning that when he's on the floor he's not going to be able to flash on the PnR or help in the high post. If you want a Rasheed Wallace type to defend the good PFs in the West go get one, but don't expect a 45-year-old Dikembe to help there. And offensively, there's no way you play Deke and Yao together without hindering your production severely.

 

I'd rather two slow centers on the team than two slow point guards.

 

Yao is good for 28-35 minutes a game easy. Mutombo can spell Yao for 12-18 minutes depending on the game and matchups can determine if the Rockets need to go small bringing MoT, Howard and Spoon(assuming he's around) into the picture.

You're right, Okur had little to nothing to do with their run, but Rasheed, a decent shotblocker, had everything to do with it.

He never will play the 4. It's simply not an option. This is not last years Rockets. We won't be seeing our backup center playing the power forward.

 

You can't trade a player (someone else's free agent) after you just signed him, it's against league rules.
j

 

You know, I've heard this speed argument ALOT recently, ever since Mutombo has entered the picture, and I don't understand why it is such a big deal. There is NO center that can run with guards. Even, as fast as Hakeem was, other teams tried to push the ball and beat him down the court. Kidd and Co. with the Suns did it all the time. It is the job of the other four players to get back on defense and stop the break to allow the center to catch up and clog the middle. Yao and Mutombo's jobs would just sit right around the paint and scare off any idea of driving to the lane, not to sprint back to stop guards pushing the ball. From what I have seen, both Yao and Deke can run with just about every other center in the league, proved they can be scarecrows in the lane, and that is all that matters.

 

It has nothing to do with being able to run with guards, or run at all, it has to do with him not being able to play PF even as admirably as Cato. Mutumbo would be unable to play in the same lineup as Yao, limiting him to about 15 minutes a game.

The upgrade that Mutumbo at the C slot for his 12-15 mins a game vs. a MoT/Howard lineup or a Scott Williams or Keon Clark (who btw, can run with guards) is not nearly the upgrade of Payton vs. anyone on our roster at the PG slot.

 

The necessity of a quality backup center would be so much greater with Payton on the team. Yao would totally get burned out.

Lue would make Yao’s life easier by spreading the defense and being able to prevent penetration from quick point guards.

Payton would make Yao’s life so much tougher. He would face so many more double teams. He’s going to have to work so much harder on defense after Payton lets guards like Tony Parker blow by him. Then he would be in foul trouble after having to contest all the shots in the lane.

I don’t even want to think about Taylor or Howard coming in the play center with Payton at the point. It would be a layup drill for the other teams point guard.

 

How can one justify trading for Payton who appears to be refusing to comply with a written contract and at the same time criticize Boozer for "opting out" of a forbidden-at-the-time verbal agreement?

I think the larger lesson is that assholes become useful gamers when they play for your team.

Go Rox!

 

I'd rather do this...

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Houston trades: SF Clarence Weatherspoon (5.0 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.6 apg in 16.7 minutes)
PG Tyronn Lue (10.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 4.2 apg in 30.7 minutes)
Houston receives: PG Antonio Daniels (8.0 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 4.2 apg in 21.3 minutes)
C Jerome James (5.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.5 apg in 15.2 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -2.5 ppg, -0.9 rpg, and -0.1 apg.

Boston trades: C Kendrick Perkins (2.2 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.3 apg in 3.5 minutes)
PG Gary Payton (14.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 5.5 apg in 34.5 minutes)
Boston receives: SF Clarence Weatherspoon (5.0 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.6 apg in 52 games)
PG Tyronn Lue (10.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 4.2 apg in 76 games)
Change in team outlook: -1.3 ppg, +0.8 rpg, and -1.0 apg.

Seattle trades: PG Antonio Daniels (8.0 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 4.2 apg in 21.3 minutes)
C Jerome James (5.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.5 apg in 15.2 minutes)
Seattle receives: C Kendrick Perkins (2.2 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.3 apg in 10 games)
PG Gary Payton (14.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 5.5 apg in 82 games)
Change in team outlook: +3.8 ppg, +0.1 rpg, and +1.1 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

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But, I think I am just dreamcasting.

 

Boston isn't stupid enough to trade Banks, Perkins (a very good prospect, despite injuries) or anyone worthwhile for Tyronn Lue, who wouldn't deserve minutes even in the Celtics rotation. Ainge received Banks trade value in the form of a first-rounder, and when the trade was revised the Lakers were totally hosed.

And why would they settle on trading Payton, who is one year removed from an all-star appearance and has an expiring contract, for Clarence Weatherspoon? If you throw in Houston's first rounder, the latter is a trade that Ainge would do.

My bet is that Payton reports and is dealt by midseason. But not for Clarence Weatherspoon. Ainge + co. would rather see him retire, or hold out for an entire season as a matter of principle, than deal him for someone the C's don't even need. The Celtics organization isn't going to take his crap.

 

If I'm not mistaken, I think payton was looking for more of an uptempo team. I think that was the promise Payton received in L.A. and that was why he opted for the second year of the contract. With Van Gundy's system does everyone honestly think he'll be happy. I'd love to have him but with his ego I wonder if he'll truly be happy just jacking up 3's and playing alot slower of a tempo.

 

Have most of you that want to trade Lue actually ever seen him play? The guy is a very quick PG and decent young player that could add some good things to this team. I for one don't want to see him traded. I saw him play with the Wizards and thought his play was very good.

 

Cetainly you see that Chi cannot send us Mutombe with another player.

in the case of us sending two to them, Article VII Section 6(h)(1)(iii) states that no player acquired via an Excetion (which Mutombo was by Chi) can be traded in a way that "gives rise to an aggregated trade exception." It doesn't matter if Houston or Chi aggregate multiple players in an exception involving Mutombo, it is still "giving rise" to aggregating multiple players in one exception. If we take Mutombo based on a TE and send just Pike back...then the trade from Chicago's point of view is Mutombe for Pike. If we add another player to that, then the trade is Mutombo for multiple players. That is giving rise to aggregating multiple players in one exception.

 

I that what you believe, or is that an argument to ignore our hole in frontline defense.

Didn't say anything about shotblockers. Defense is not about shot blocking. Team defense is about limiting the opponents to one shot. That is, you must get the freaking rebound. I want rebounders. None of our bigs are above average at rebounding.

Plus, don't compare our defense to Detroit

Also, their starting PG was "vital" because of their need for scoring from that position. We don't need scoring from that position. We need frontline defense/rebounding.

imo, getting Payton is a matter of economics. You take Payton or look for a big.

 

Sane,

Allow me to add a slight correction...we can send Chicago Griffin and Pike for Mutombo, and Chi won't be aggregating those two salaries under an APE, because they'd take Griffin under a minumum salary exception. But that still involves us using nearly our entire TE on Mutombo.

We'd still be left matching salaries for Payton. A Mutombo trade using the TE, and a Payton for Lue trade using the TE, can't both happen.

 

2004 Election, Just Say NO To GP!

 

I would like to keep Lue. I have hopes for his defense against the small, fast PG's like Tony Parker. I would like to try Glove out though. I think he would add an attitiude infusion to the team. The Celtics are in a position of weakness in this deal. No need to be too generous.

 

San Antonio @ Orlando 12/5/03
Tony Parker: 40 minutes, 8 points (4/10 fg), 11 assists, 4 turnos, 0 steals
Tyronn Lue: 41 minutes, 15 points (5/7 fg), 2 assists, 0 turnos, 0 steals

Orlando @ San Antonio 12/26/03
Tony Parker: 37 minutes, 22 points (10/20), 5 assists, 1 turno, 2 steals
Tyronn Lue: 23 minutes (4 fouls), 6 points (3/7), 1 assist, 1 turno, 0 steals

good first game vs TP, bad second game

 

The glove is done as an elite player.

Lue is a better shooter, Sura a better defender
and Ward is ... well he's a back up.

Concentrate on a back up for Yao...

Let GP go home.

We will regret having him after the first month of the season.

Especially if he gets an attitude, which he will before the first month of the season ends.

He has offensive and pg skills left, but he has lost his defensive quickness and his attitude is the pits.

Trust me, I would sign Eddie Griffin before I would sign Payton.

 

Payton could be Pippen Part II. I lost a lot of respect for him last season. He signed on to the Lakers to ride the Shaq-Kobe coattail. He whined when things didn't get his way. He didn't step up when everybody was expecting him to. Now, he's complaining about being traded to a non-contender.

I said it elsewhere. One year ago, I would give up about anybody other than Yao for Payton. Now, I wouldn't even give up Tyronne Lue for him.